Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lord_Kadarian Aug 20, 2015 17:50:51	So one of my players predominantly relies on magic missile they never played back in 3.0 or 3.5 so they don't know about the force missile mage prestige class but I got to thinking and decided that for them I would like to build an archtype that works with magic missiles.   Do to their favorite class being the sorcerer I have decided to build an archtype for this class and would like to ask the community to assist me in doing so.    The things I will keep in mind for this build is that the force missile mage had the following higher HD D8 the mage gets extra missiles (officially he got two extra missiles) the mage gets meta magic effects for free in some cases (reason for sorcerer now revealed) The mage can add elemental energy types (limited to the four base energies) to his missiles The mage gets an ability allowing them to use the shield spell once per day as an immediate action (not normally allowed in 3.0)   I was thinking of starting with the dragon archtype as base building block and going from there.
#2 Lord_Kadarian Aug 20, 2015 18:11:16	what room do I have to work within   using dragon blood as a base we have  lv 1: draconic ancestry: grants fluent in draconic, and double proficiency on talking with dragons (circumstancial and intended as social bonus) lv1: draconic resiliance: +1 hp per level, and 13+dex ac (combat benefits) lv6: draconic affinity: increase damage of chosen element by charisma modifier, and spend 1 sorc point to gain resistance to energy type for 1 hour. lv14: Dragon wings: you get wings (actually quite valuable) lv18: Aura power that allows you to spend sorc points to frighten or charm targets within 60ft.
#3 Lord_Kadarian Aug 28, 2015 23:36:41	thoughts: (allow force missile mages to use energy adept, and spell sniper for magic missile and force missile)   Force Missile Evocation Cantrip Casting Time: 1 Action Range: 60ft. Components: V, S Duration: Instantaneous You create a single glowing dart of magical force. the dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. a dart deals 1d4+1 force damage to it's target. This spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels; dealing 2d4+2 at 5th level, 3d4+3 at 11th level, and 4d4+4 at 17th level.   lv1: +1 hp per level, and they learn the mage armor spell, and may cast it once per day for free (self only) lv1: lose one cantrip known, gain cantrip called force missile (as seen above) lv1: not sure what to do for the social ability 6th: Spend 1 sorc point to cast the shield spell, you add the shield spell to your list of spells known.  6th: Add charisma as bonus damage to magic missile/force missile (note each target only takes charisma damage once per casting) IE I cast magic missile at the big bad with my charisma of +3 the target takes 3d4+6 damage, alt I cast magic missile at the three goblins each goblin takes 1d4+4 damage. 6th: When you cast the magic missile spell you launch an additional missile (does not add to force missile cantrip), at 14th, and again at 18th level you gain an additional magic missile to a grand total of 3. 14th: the meta magic effect sublte spell is now active on magic missile and force missile spells (without expense) 14th: when attacking a foe with brooch of shielding or the shield spell active the force missile mage is not stopped but instead has to roll a magic attack roll (charisma+proficiency) vs. the target. 18th: Once again not sure how to fully replace the aura ability at this point (maybe adding in the energy force missile mage ability, but affecting vuln at this ability I don't know if that is all that useful at this level)    Edit: compressed information, considering reducing force missiles damage value (currently 1d4+1=3.5) vs. average pure damage spell (1d10=5.5) Edit: altered mage armor ability from at will mage armor self only, to learns the mage armor spell, and may cast for free once per day on self. Edit: altered wording for force missile cantrip from range 60ft, create one magic missile that deals 1d4+1 damage and one additional missile at 5th, 11th, 17th.
#4 transcendantviewer Aug 20, 2015 23:43:43	Hmm... This could be a decent idea, but it requires more fleshing out. The only real recommendation I can make is perhaps having the cantrip lose any bonuses to its damage and just deal 1d4 force damage, but have it increase in number of missils produced. That way, it's got something unique, not too powerful, and feels useful at all levels, without compromising the potential output of their actual Magic Missile Spell. Oh, and if you make this a real cantrip, it should probably be available to other casters as well, but I'm not entirely sure. The extra missiles on Magic Missile is fine, the cha bonus to damage rolls on the Magic Missile seems alright as well... I'm not really sure what to say aside from probably just condensing it a bit more.
#5 transcendantviewer Aug 21, 2015 9:55:55	I still think the Force Missile Cantrip shouldn't get any bonuses to its damage. It's already dealing a type of damage that nothing can resist, strikes unerringly, and can hit multiple targets. I think 1d4/missile is good enough for a cantrip. It shouldn't get any type of bonus damage at all. It's closest compeditor is Vicious Mockery, and that requires a saving throw and gives Disadvantage to the target's next attack before the end of its next turn. This won't offer a save and won't get anything extra, just unerring damage.
#6 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 21, 2015 10:49:58	Nichewise, this probably shouldn't be a subclass, honestly, since all the classes who can cast magic missile have their own 1st level choices instead of being something to grow into. It strikes me more as a feat. Maybe something like this?   Force Missile Mage Prerequisite: must know the Magic Missile spell Your proficiency with simple force effects grants you the following benefits: When you cast magic missile, you create one more dart than you normally would. When you cast magic missile using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, you can create one fewer dart than normal to create energy darts instead of force darts. When you cast magic missile this way, you choose acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder damage, and all the darts you create with this spell deal damage of that type. Energy darts cannot be empowered darts (see below). When you cast magic missile using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, you can create two fewer darts than normal to create empowered darts instead. Each target you strike with one or more empowered darts takes damage equal to your spellcasting ability modifier. Empowered darts cannot be energy darts (see above). When you take damage from a weapon or spell attack from a creature within 120 feet that you can see, you can use your reaction to cast magic missile using your lowest-level remaining spell slot. All the darts must target your attacker. If the damage you took disrupts your concentration on another spell, magic missile creates one extra dart per level of the disrupted spell. I left out an augmented Shield because it's already a great spell in this edition, including getting the "immediate action" casting effect by default. In its place, I put in a "Missile Revenge" option (which conflicts with Shield since it also uses your reaction, but in its place, it can really sting if you lose a spell or if you're out of 1st-level spell slots (because at that point, you can use energy darts or empowered darts).)   Incidentally, this wording on the third bullet causes the damage to be dealt once per target, meaning empowered bolts are best used to wipe out hordes of foes. (It's a 3rd level spell that fires off four bolts for 1d4+6 damage if you're maxed out; it can't hit as many targets as a Fireball, but it's Force damage and still guaranteed autohit, and it's not all that common to hit more than 4 at once anyway...). Meanwhile, energy darts are most useful because they can strike an elemental vulnerability, doubling their damage if you focus-fire against a vulnerable foe (and benefitting from dragon sorcerer options if you go that route).   I'm not 100% sold on this since the feat is narrow in its focus (normally they should supply at least one option to people outside the niche it's designed for), but it does seem to capture the core idea. The rest can be done with standard spells - perhaps most notably an adaptation of Chain Missile and, maybe, Arcane Blast (which, in 3.X, was identical to Magic Missile except it dealt 1d6 damage and allowed Reflex Half). Your force missile cantrip is in this vein.
#7 Lord_Kadarian Aug 22, 2015 10:06:44	response time comparison of vicious mockery and magic missiles Psychic is a energy type that is rare to run into, and rare to be resistant to, very similar to force (so good comparison so far) Vicious mockery is a debuff spell with damage, granting disadvantage on a success (on the players end) which is nice and hurts the enemy a little, designed for a class whose spell list are not mainly attack spells (bard). Magic Missile is a pure damage spell (no other effects) It does not miss which is valuable (especially when your player rolls really badly, the main reason my player spend most of her time casting magic missile)  So first I would like to do is compare it to the attack cantrips the sorcerer would normally have the choice of. Acid splash: 60ft range, save, low damage, multiple targets off the bat, grows stronger (uncommon resistance but not rare)  Chill touch: 120ft range, good necrotic damage (outside of undead rare to be resistant to) has bonus effect against undead, and shuts down healing (amazing attack spell) Firebolt: 120ft, great fire damage, can be used to start fires. (common to be resistant to) Poison spray: 10ft almost no range, exceptional poison damage, con save, (uncommon to resist, but a lot of extra planar types are immune) Ray of frost: 60ft range, good cold damage, (not too hard to find something resistant to it between common and uncommon) slows target on a hit by 10ft. Shocking grasp: elec damage, good damage, range touch, shuts down reactions. Auto advantage if target is wearing metal (often procs)    All of these grow stronger as we level.    I still like keeping it at 1d4+1 (partially because I want it seen as magic missile and not something similar but distinct) (partially because 1d4+1 is equilavent to 1d6 the lowest damage type on the sorcerer spell list, it does not offer debuff, has a range reduction from the big damage cantrips, and would be a few steps down in power, also it cannot crit, cant crit fail either)    also apparently we only get up to 4 missiles now that I have reread the progression of cantrips 1,5,11,17th.    Now I do have an alternative thought that may also be of interest   the druid has a cantrip that creates three magic stones that deal 1d6+wis damage and use wis for attack range 60ft, that can be handed off to anyone and count as magic attacks.  the reason I mention this is that this spell while great in early game, does not progress as the party levels outside of the druids wisdom potentially growing.   If I were to design the force missile cantrip based on this concept I would design it where it fires two missiles each dealing 1d4+1 damage 60ft auto hit can target single target or two targets. but it does not grow at all from there. Now then the force missile mage I have designed would treat this cantrip just like the magic missile spell which means that for this archtype alone this spell would progress: at 6th, 14th, and 18th level they would get an extra missile. To a total of 5. Making it powerful in this classes hands. Still getting more missiles and range out of using the main spell. Although in this version I would probably consider dropping distance to 30ft.   reason for 30ft, will be 1 missile behind magic missile, instead of 2, if solo targeting would deal an average of 7 damage (vs firebolts 5.5) so would need considerable range drop.   Another alternate that just popped into my head:  1d4+1 30ft auto hit force, at 5th (60ft) at 11th (120ft), at 17th (240ft) (not as much range as a warlock, but auto hit)  so it goes further and further as you level, a force missile mage eventually gets up to 4 missiles and bonus damage so becomes a functional spell sniper, but normal builds using the spell just get an auto hit at low levels when light damage is okay, and at higher levels where the low damage is not very helpful a long range spell.
(Reply to #6) Lord_Kadarian	I fully believe this feat Idea deserves a reply   especially since I didn't even think of this and it is a brilliant thougt. Force Missile mage: (feats are supposed to have something for everyone, and then most of the rest focused) so I am going to try and take a stab at this although I will need some more time to work on refinement of this concept as well.   Force missile mage: you gain the cantrip force missile (currently only available through this feat), also upon taking this feat you must choose a mental stat to be your primary spell casting stat, you are considered proficient in its use when casting magic missile spells. Force missile: when you use this cantrip you create a magic missile that deals 1d4+1 damage and can hit a target within 60ft line of sight. (you gain additional missiles at 5th, 11th, and 17th levels) (these additional missiles can target the same target or different targets like normal magic missiles) Force adept: When you create magic missiles (either through the magic missile spell, force missile cantrip, or robe of the stars, wand of magic missile, or any source that produces magic missiles) you produce an additional magic missile. Energy missile: you may spend your bonus action to imbue you magic missiles with an energy type: either fire, cold, acid, lightning, or thunder damage. Empower missile: you may spend your bonus action to imbue your magic missiles with additional force, when you do this add your primary spell casting modifier to the damage dealt by your force missile spells, can only be applied once to a target per casting (IE single target takes +3 damage, two targets each take +3 damage) Bypass shields: when your target is wearing a brooch of shielding, or has the shield spell up, you do not automatically miss with magic missile but instead have to roll a normal attack roll using your primary spell casting modifier with proficiency.    I like the idea of having energy missile and empower missile built in, but I think eating up the action economy is more effective, many classes get valuable use out of bonus actions and actions cannot be exchanged. So if my sorcerer tries to cast a quickened magic missile (allowing them to cast it as a bonus action) they could use an action to cast force missile but they could not empower either spell. I in the bypass shield because a character that builds themselves magic missile is shut down by the shield spell, or brooch of shielding and this makes it take away the main perk of magic missile instead.   I would also be tempted to make a follow up feat, that requires the force missile mage feat, that grants the character the ability to cast magic missile a certain number of times per day.  Of course I would think that a character investing in this feat that does not have magic missile would be tempted to invest in a wand of magic missile.
#9 transcendantviewer Aug 24, 2015 12:19:48	Your concept of the feat, Lord_Kadarian, is way too powerful. What you should do instead is grant them the cantrip, and one of the features you suggested. Any more than that and you're creating a character that, at any level, could overpower enemies without even rolling anything but damage.
#10 transcendantviewer Aug 24, 2015 12:22:10	In fact, forget the feature for extra damage on their missiles. Giving a spell that just does damage even more damage is just silly.
#11 daspian Aug 24, 2015 16:50:32	well, sorry to be "that guy"... but why not just go a pure wizard and at higher levels they can cast two 1st-2nd level  spells at will *cough* Magic Missile *Cough* Shield...... that's essentially what the class revolves around... you wanting to spam shield and magic missile?
#12 transcendantviewer Aug 24, 2015 22:02:02	You're right, daspian, but there's never anything wrong with making something a little more involved. If he wants his player to have something fun to play, that's his business. If he's intent on making it a certain way, we should offer help. Constructive criticism helps too, but it seems he's deadset on his current idea.
#13 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 25, 2015 11:18:32	daspian wrote:
#14 Yunru Aug 25, 2015 16:25:30	Wouldn't just a Warlock work? You've recharging spell slots to spam Magic Missile even more, and Eldritch Blast is like a mini-Magic Missile, sans non-missing.
#15 transcendantviewer Aug 25, 2015 20:42:35	Yunru, his player's already been playing their character, it wouldn't be very nice to just say "Well, what you're playing is basically this. So you're going to play this now because it's less complicated." D&D is all about being complicated, especially when the players are involved. I think the best option is to make the cantrip into part of a feat and offer one extra ability to it to make it appealing, like for instance, allowing them to produce an extra missile with their Magic Missile Spell, but that should only be an option if he reduces the cantrip's damage to just a flat 1d4 each missile.
#16 Yunru Aug 26, 2015 5:23:42	I'm not saying make them a Warlock, I'm saying use the Warlock as a base.
#17 transcendantviewer Aug 26, 2015 8:55:30	Well, sadly, the moment for the Warlock's passed.
(Reply to #17) Yunru	transcendantviewer wrote:
#19 daspian Aug 26, 2015 21:26:23	Sorcerer Origin: Force Mage   1st level feature:  They gain resistance to force damage, access to a new cantrip called "Force Dart", and they can as a reaction, spend 1 sorc point to quickly conjure a minor force barrier to reduce the damage of a single attack by an amount equal to their sorcerer level + their CHA modifier.  (if this is too underpowered, maybe have it be twice their sorc level, i feel like the wya it's written now it scales really badly unless it becomes twice)   (essentially it's a miniature "Magic Missile" but you only fire 1 missile, this way i think it should balance out the fact you hvae an auto-hit cantrip, obviously might need reviewing) Force Dart Evocation Cantrip Casting Time: 1 Action Range: 120 feet Components: V,S Duration: Instantaneous You create a single glowing dart of magical force. the dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. a dart deals 1d4 force damage to it's target. this spell's damage increases to 2d4 when you reach 5th level, 3d4 at 11th level, and 4d4 at 17th level.   1st level feature: they can transform the damage type of any spell they cast of 1st level or higher to force damage, IE instead of casting fireball they "thematically" cast a huge ball of kinetic force energy. in addition, whenever you deal force damage to a creature, that creature must make a Strength Saving Throw versus your spell save DC or be pushed 10 feet.   6th level feature: starting at 6th level, you have learned how to amplify the kinetic energy spells you cast, whenever you deal force damage with a spell of 1st level or higher, you may add your Charisma Modifier to the damage of that spell.   14th level feature: * something defensive, perhaps revolving around the Shield spell*   18th level feature: * something perhaps rewarding the player to allow at-will casting of "Shield", "Magic Missile" and "???" spell as at-will at their lowest level possible without expending a spell slot, basically a slightly better clone of the wizard's top end feature mentioned earlier... but restricted to these 3 choices, instead of the wizard being able to master 2 of any spell they want.   idk, you guys take it from here... hopefully maybe this is something of what you had in mind if not....well idk.... also i feel like you should really stick to either A.) just making a class origin of an official class (like sorc or warlock) or just reflavoring already existing class origins and just using reflavored stuff... creating an entirely new class is always just gamebreaking or winds up so brokenly OP, or just resembles one of hte already existing  classes way way way to much and probably could easily just fall under that class as an origin. remember 5e is all about simplifying **** =S   anyways... hope this is at least on the path of what you're looking for in a force mage.
#20 Yunru Aug 26, 2015 11:37:43	Personally I'd have the cantrip do 1d4-1, since it can be used an unlimited number of times, and then have a later feature add +mod, ala Agonizing Blast.
#21 daspian Aug 26, 2015 13:16:40	mmm i was thinking that too, i just didn't know if i could do a "-1" type shtick, as i've never seen other spells do it i think, or just leave it as a flat 1d4
#22 transcendantviewer Aug 26, 2015 19:13:14	Having the cantrip at a flat 1d4 frees up space for it to get stronger, but never rival the damage of Magic Missile. If this archetype/feat allows for extra missiles produced by the Magic Missile spell, the Force Missile cantrip will never be stronger than a 1st level magic missile spell.
#23 daspian Aug 26, 2015 21:58:41	Sorcerer Origin: Force Mage Kinetic Practioner: Starting at 1st level you gain resistance to force damage, learn the "Force Dart" cantrip, and as a reaction, you may spend 1 Sorcery Point to quickly conjure a minor force barrier to reduce the damage of a single attack dealt to you by an amount equal to your Sorcerer Level + Your Charisma Modifier. This increases to twice your Sorcerer Level + Your Charisma Modifier at 8th level.     Kinetic Energy: Starting at 1st level, you have learned to weave kinetic energy into all forms of your spells, you can change the elemental type of any spell of 1st-level or higher you cast to Force damage instead. in addition, whenever you deal force damage, that creature must make a Strength Saving Throw versus your spell save DC or be pushed 10 feet.   Kinetic Amplification: Starting at 6th level, you have learned how to amplify the kinetic energy within your spells, whenever you deal force damage with a spell of 1st level or higher, you may add your Charisma Modifier to the damage ddealt.   Overpowering Force: Starting at 14th level, your mastery over kinetic energy has reached immense levels very few can stand the might of your immense force; your spells of 1st-level or higher that deal force damage ignore resistance, in addition, you may spend  Sorcery Points as a bonus action when you cast a spell of 1st level or higher to amplify the damage of said spell by 1d6 per sorcery point spent; this type of damage is treated as force damage.   Kinetic Master: Starting at 18th level, you have achieved a level of mastery over kinetic energy that none before has ever achieved, you gain immunity to force damage, and can manipulate the kinetic energy of the earth itself, allowing you to gain a fly speed equal to your normal movement speed.   Force Dart Evocation Cantrip Casting Time: 1 Action Range: 120 feet Components: V,S Duration: Instantaneous You create a single glowing dart of magical force. the dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. a dart deals 1d4 force damage to it's target.   this is what i came up with after a little bit of thinking, i feel like it should be fine balance wise, and falls within the line of what the other sorc origins are like, as well as interweaving the sorc point mechanics with the sorc origin itself, instead of trying to make a class revolved around the 1st-level spell magic missile which was just getting to clunky to balance, i felt like just creating a cantrip that aesthically did the same thing was ...well.. the same thing. i also reversed the elemental affinity thing, i felt like a force mage should go ALL the way and do the opposite of just being able to change his force dart to any elemental type... and instead be able to turn all his other spells into concussive force energy!   i feel like right off the bat this should be pretty balanced, there's nothing overly glaring to me at least that's broken, the only 2 things are perhaps the immunity to force damage and the 1st level features Minor Force shield, but i granted that because if i recall force is one of the least used elemental types, up there with thunder and psychic, if so... can just remove that and add something like: you can instead grant yourself and anyone who remains within 60'ft of you a fly speed equal to their normal speed. #Magneto style   and secondly the force minor shield thing... i felt at low level the shield did a great boost of protection but would eventually scale off pretty badly as the damage soaking would become piss-poor, so i added the "sorc level x2" at 8th level part.. but that also might be too for something that only costs 1 reaction/1 sorc point and is essentially a dmg-soaker, so after some number-crunching that might need to just be brought back down to plain old Sorc level x1 and just have to deal with the scaling
#24 transcendantviewer Aug 27, 2015 0:45:04	I suppose I'll take a crack at it... Force Practitioner. Beginning at 1st level, the Force Missile Cantrip is added to your list of Cantrips known. In addition, you learn the Mage Armor spell if you didn't already know it and you can cast Mage Armor on yourself once per day without expending a spell slot.   Kinetic Reflection. At 1st level, you learn how to reflect blows back at targets. When you are struck by an attack or the Magic Missile spell, you can expend your reaction and a spell slot of 1st level or higher to reduce the damage you take and reflect some of it back to your attacker. This ability reduces the damage taken by an amount equal to your Sorcerer level + twice the spell slot expended and reflects that much Force damage back at your attacker.   Force Missile Evocation Cantrip Casting Time: 1 Action Range: 120ft. Components: V, S Duration: Instantaneous You create a single glowing dart of magical force. the dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. a dart deals 1d4 force damage to it's target. This spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels; dealing 2d4 at 5th level, 3d4 at 11th level, and 4d4 at 17th level.   Force Amplification. Starting at 6th level, you learn how replace the damage of your spells with Force damage. Whenever you cast a spell, you can expend a number of Sorcery Points equal to the level of the spell slot used (Or 1 Sorcery Point for cantrips) to have the spell instead deal Force damage instead. In addition to the spell's ordinary effects, all targets affected must make a Strength Saving Throw against your Spell Save DC or be knocked prone.   Force Overwhelming. When you reach 14th level, you unlock greater knowledge of how to make use of magical force. Whenever you deal force damage with a spell of 1st level or higher, you can expend a number of Sorcery Points equal to the level of the spell slot used to have all targets affected make a Strength Saving Throw against your Spell Save DC. On a failed save, they each have their speed reduced to 0. They can repeat this saving throw at the start of each of their turns.   Kinetic Mastery. At 18th level, you learn to use magical force to suppliment your spells and abilities. Whenever you cast a spell of 2nd level or higher, you can cast your Force Missile Cantrip as a part of the spell's effects. In addition, whenever you expend a spell slot of 3rd level or higher on your Kinetic Reflection ability, you can cast your Force Missile Cantrip as part of your Reaction.
#25 Lord_Kadarian Aug 28, 2015 23:33:07	Okay to be honest I thought my thread on this was dead so I was suprised when I popped online and saw all of this. so I guess I should answer a few things to help clarifiy   first yes the feat has a lot of power its a rough draft, I generally think my ideas out loud and then slowly alter them most likely this would turn into a chain of feats.   The cantrip in the feat comes from my need to give the character selecting it something useful for any takers. Making the cantrip limited to only characters that take the feat gives a little lee way for it having more oomph in my book. I agree that I need to remove some effects and rethink others and probably design a second feat that requires this one as a pre-requisite to help balance the power. I tried balancing a little by making it eat up bonus actions but in reality that only does so much.    As for the sorcerer this comes from a few reasons. 1. meta magic, 2. my groups generally play at lower levels and when we get to high levels that is generally the end game for that story arc so it does not last long, so if it is going to be the main concept of the character it can't come in at the end of play. 3. I tried thinking it out for the warlock but I ran into constant issue while trying to redesign either the patron, the pact or both in the end  I concluded that it would just be easier to alter the sorcerer. (I view the warlock as better built for blaster which is why I started with it, my player generally prefers sorcerers from her 3.5 and pathfinder days and this preference continues into 5th edition)    Daspian also brings up a concept I had not considered that would help with the balance of power. One of the issues with my force missile cantrip is that as it grows in power it also allows you to target additional targets. Multi targeting is a valuable feature so most likely it would be best to remove that benefit from the cantrip. IE: Force Missile Evocation Cantrip Casting Time: 1 Action Range: 60ft. Components: V, S Duration: Instantaneous You create a single glowing dart of magical force. the dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. a dart deals 1d4+1 force damage to it's target. This spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels; dealing 2d4+2 at 5th level, 3d4+3 at 11th level, and 4d4+4 at 17th level.   I want to limit range to emphasis the difference in power and reducing targeting options will also help with reigning in the strength of the cantrip.   I want to make it clear those who have stated that 1d4+1 is too powerful I have heard you, and I have taken it into consideration, at this stage I am letting my player test out the current itteration of my cantrip and at 1d4+1 it has not been a problem for damage output, the player still uses their first level and second level versions of magic missile, but they fall back to the cantrip when the run out of spells. (a big reason for me coming forward with this idea is that the player in question has really bad luck with dice rolls, and feels useless when they can't hit a darn thing and thus end up not helping at all during combat. In addition when we tried out 1d4 the damage output was low enough where they still did not feel helpful and the rest of the party was in agreement, adding the +1 seemed to make all the difference in how my player and our party felt, this is the reason I am using 1d4+1)    My players have just reached 5th level and so they have not had the chance to use my earlier version force missile with extra missiles I intend to use the above mentioned force missile with the alteration inspired by Daspian. To help keep game balance   Also to transcendantviewer I think you have a great idea with how you handled the mage armor ability  in fact you handled it better than my original idea which ripped off the warlock invoction ability. Granting them the abiltiy to know mage armor, and a once per day free cast makes it so they most likely won't have it on 24/7 but will most likely have it on for the 8hr adventuring day, in your method they still have the ability to pull it up when they need it rather than remain vulnearble as long as they have a spell slot next. So in short bravo brilliant idea.
(Reply to #14) Lord_Kadarian	Yunru wrote:
#27 transcendantviewer Aug 29, 2015 0:05:44	Can't fault you for listening to your players. I suppose your iteration of the cantri[ works well enough, I don't really have a problem with the +1, I just didn't want the cantrip to feel like it could overshadow the Magic Missile spell.
#28 Lord_Kadarian Aug 29, 2015 0:30:58	well with all of this I think it is time I took another crack at the feat and see what I can do to bring it in line with other available choices original design Force missile mage: you gain the cantrip force missile (currently only available through this feat), also upon taking this feat you must choose a mental stat to be your primary spell casting stat, you are considered proficient in its use when casting magic missile spells. Force missile: when you use this cantrip you create a magic missile that deals 1d4+1 damage and can hit a target within 60ft line of sight. (you gain additional missiles at 5th, 11th, and 17th levels) (these additional missiles can target the same target or different targets like normal magic missiles) Force adept: When you create magic missiles (either through the magic missile spell, force missile cantrip, or robe of the stars, wand of magic missile, or any source that produces magic missiles) you produce an additional magic missile. Energy missile: you may spend your bonus action to imbue you magic missiles with an energy type: either fire, cold, acid, lightning, or thunder damage. Empower missile: you may spend your bonus action to imbue your magic missiles with additional force, when you do this add your primary spell casting modifier to the damage dealt by your force missile spells, can only be applied once to a target per casting (IE single target takes +3 damage, two targets each take +3 damage) Bypass shields: when your target is wearing a brooch of shielding, or has the shield spell up, you do not automatically miss with magic missile but instead have to roll a normal attack roll using your primary spell casting modifier with proficiency.  2.0 for this design please note that I am using this version of force missile Force Missile Evocation Cantrip Casting Time: 1 Action Range: 60ft. Components: V, S Duration: Instantaneous You create a single glowing dart of magical force. the dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. a dart deals 1d4+1 force damage to it's target. This spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels; dealing 2d4+2 at 5th level, 3d4+3 at 11th level, and 4d4+4 at 17th level. This spell is treated as the spell magic missile for the purpose of abilities that defend against magic missile. Force missile adept: You learn the cantrip force missile When you cast the magic missile spell (from any source) you produce an additional magic missile (thus dealing an additional 1d4+1 damage) Bypass shields: when your target is wearing a brooch of shielding or has the shield spell up (or other source that would negate pr defend against magic missile or force missile) instead of the spell automatically failing you instead may roll a magic attack roll (using your proficiency bonus + your mental casting stat, classes that do not have a mental casting stat that take this feat must choose one of their three mental stats at the time of feat selection) If you would hit the targets ac normally the spell succeeds if you fail to hit the targets ac then the spell is effected normally by the defensive spell.    Okay so I need to work on the word choice a bit for bypass shield, and I just noticed that I needed to put into force missile that it is negatively impacted by abilities that defend against magic missile.   Now then my reasoning for this feat as it is. The force missile cantrip is the main part of the feat that benefits anyone who takes it. The increase to missiles for magic missile is a nice boon, for casters that know this spell or a character who has invested in a wand of magic missile. The final ability allows magic missile or force missile to sometimes overcome defensive magic designed to stop it, although the +5 ac from shield will still make this a challenge in most cases. With the benefit also being circumstancial but still making it so that these defenses have a chance of stopping the unstoppable.   Force Missile Mage: Pre-requisite: force missile adept When you cast the magic missile spell (from any source) you gain an additional magic missile (this stacks with the one from adept) Magic missile: you learn the spell magic missile and once per day you may cast it at its lowest level without expending a spell slot. in addition you may choose one of the below options once chosen you cannot change your choice (with DM permission you may change your choice when you level or based on pre-requisites you and your DM agree upon)  Energy missile: you may spend your bonus action to imbue you magic missiles/force missiles with an energy type: either fire, cold, acid, lightning, or thunder damage it deals this damage instead of force damage. Empower missile: you may spend your bonus action to imbue your magic missiles/force missile with additional force, when you do this add your primary spell casting modifier to the damage dealt by your force missile spells, this ability can only be applied once to a target per casting (IE single target takes +3 damage, two targets each take +3 damage) Subtle Missile: as a bonus action you may apply the sorcerer meta magic ability subtle to a casting of force missile or magic missile. (this does not require having sorcerer points, nor the meta magic ability sublte spell)   Force Missile Master: pre-requisite: force missile mage (feat) You obtain the two remaining choices from force missile mage in addition when you cast the magic missile spell you produce an additional magic missile (this brings the total bonus missiles to three) Note: consider dropping this abiltiy in exchance for an option that instead makes it so your free minimum level casting of magic missile recharges on a short rest instead of on a long rest.    I know that currently there are not any feat chains that go this far unless we consider armor proficiency chain for certain classes But I feel it divies up the power of my original feat while still giving something back. As usual I would appreciate any thoughts, comments, constructive criticism, and counter proposals anyone and everyone can come up with as I would rather build something right and with your help I think I can get there.
(Reply to #27) Lord_Kadarian	transcendantviewer wrote:
#30 Yunru Aug 29, 2015 7:01:58	So a cantrip that does 1d4-1, 1 attack at levels 1-4, 2 at 5-10, 3 at 11-16, and 4 at 17+. Then a feat that lets you add +mod to Force spells. Perhaps +1 to a mental stat or some other secondary advantage, maybe 1d4+1 damage to whomever hits you with a melee attack.
(Reply to #30) Lord_Kadarian	Yunru wrote:
#32 Yunru Aug 29, 2015 10:41:07	Wording could do with some refining but yeah, that's the jist of it. You've a nice plinking cantrip for early levels, and with the feat you've a decent cantrip all round. It also improves magic missile so that one wont outperform the other.
#33 Lord_Kadarian Sep 06, 2015 8:03:01	So I must now return to an earlier part of the project I have yet to flesh out the 1st level social ability, and the 18th level aura ability the original version the sorcer dragon blood had.   Sorcs original ability grants you the ability to read write and speak draconic. As well as you double your proficiency bonus on charisma checks when using them on dragons, this only applies if you are proficient.    So bonus language, and double proficiency on charisma checks for a rare circumstance (depending on the campaign)  My thouhgt was to keep it simple and offer them proficiency on intimidate or make it so they can choose one social skill (persuasion, deciet, intimidate) and gain proficiency in it. My thought for intimidate is that people don't really trust casters all that much in most societies and worlds. Combined with I don't miss and you get a good mix for scarring people.   as for level 18 you get an ability that uses 5 sorcerer points; takes an action to activate, 60 foot radius lasts 1 minute. concentration ability. cause fear or awe. wisdom saving throw vs charisma based dc. Targets must make save when they start their turn in your aura.    this ability can shut down a lot of enemies or be used to charm a large group of people. Or mass intimidate (pretty powerful) eats up 25% of your sorcerer points.   thoughts a powerful AOE effect can be interesting but we have already built up our multi missile effect. This being considered currently I am giving them the last bonus missile at this level.  so at this stage some ideas are  Counter Missile: (based on tempest_stormwinds idea in his feat) when you are attacked you may use your force missile or magic missile spell as a reaction, you must target the triggering attacker. Would probably make this ability cost a sorcerer point each time you use it.  Energy Missile: when casting magic missile or force missile; you may choose an energy type fire, lightning, cold, acid, or thunder. They deal this type of energy and are effected by resistance, immunity, and vulnerability as normal. (consider giving damage boost when using elemental energy such as 1d6 instead of 1d4) if damage increase make it take sorcerer points when you use this ability Missile defense field: expend sorcerer points (based on the spell slot level of the magic missile you want surrounding you, force missile as a cantrip counts as 0) as an action create a field of magic missiles around yourself they strike hostile targets that come within 60ft of you, 1 missile per 5ft they move towards you each missile counts as a seperate hit (so each missile gets the bonus charisma damage) This ability lasts 1 minute or until the missile are expended.  (I am really not sure how missile defense field would work just sort of thinking this out) either way any ideas on what to put at this level, ideas on how to make these abilities fit at this level, or which one to use, or if I should offer the player a choice at this level would be appreciated been having a lot of trouble thinking out lv 1 and lv 18.    Thank you to everybody.