Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 NalaufeinHasrov Feb 17, 2015 11:51:24	Hey guys, currently I am trying to work out the final details of the ending of one of the campaigns I am currently DMing. It is Epic Level and I want there to be a sort of big splash of an ending when they hit "Level 40". I am planning on having a Great Wyrm Force Dragon coming down from the North near The High Ice and nearly completely obliterating The High Forest. He uncovers a hidden Elven City (one of my players is from there, I forget the name) and essentially slaughters many of the citizens, priests, nobility, and the King. He takes the rest of the civilians as slaves including my player's parents. My question is if you guys think four Level 40 characters would be able to take down a CR 59 Force Dragon? We have been playing for awhile so everyone has been multiclassing and everything has been awesome since the start. I just want to end the campaign on a badass note before we start our next campaign. In case you guys need to know more about the characters, I have their classes listed below:   Unnamed One => Level 30 Druid, Level 30 Ranger, Level 20 Arcane Archer, Level 20 Dragon Disciple Elric Lonewalker => Level 30 Monk, Level 30 Chronomancer (3.5version), Level 20 Necromancer, Level 20 Warpriest Eofur Torlyk => Level 30 Rogue, Level 20 Assassin, Level 20 Arcane Trickster, Level 20 Shadow Assassin, Level 10 Void Incarnate Rollen => Level 30 Sorcerer, Level 30 Fighter, Level 30 Barbarian, Level 10 Legendary Dreadnaught   Sorry if this is a stupid question, this is my first time ever running an Epic Level campaign.
#2 Goon-for-Hire Feb 17, 2015 12:12:14	Epic CRs are wonky, to say the least.  When dealing with a standard campaign, a CR 4 or 5 above the party level is pretty much a guaranteed kill, and a CR  19 above the party would be inconceivable.  In this case, you are talking about some complex builds using 3.5 prestige classes in epic.  I am willing to believe that your PCs could pull it off, so long as you are willing to make this battle truly epic by allowing the PCs to break off and regroup, take pauses to strategize, etc., and let the battle happen over several separate engagements.  Consider giving them access to a demiplane with an extreme time differential where they can rest up for a night halfway through the fight or some such if they need it - maybe one that can only be visited once.   If the PCs are not the strategic thinkers I am assuming they are, you might want to gather some stories from GMs about extreme epic battles they've run, and have your PCs come across a book of lost legends describing them.  For my PCs one of their best strategies for dealing with an epic monster was to force it through a gate to the negative material plane; they prepared death wards to protect themselves, so they could follow the foe in and keep it bust while its HP were leeched off.   Be ready to see one or more of the characters die at least once.  At this level, death is temporary at best, anyway.
#3 Goon-for-Hire Feb 17, 2015 12:07:40	Worst comes to worst, you could always have the NPCs enslaved by teh dragon start praying to the PCs mid battle and suddnly kick them up to demigod status. At level 40 and the end of a campaign, that would be a hell of a final "bang."
#4 Goon-for-Hire Feb 17, 2015 12:11:15	I just did the math, these are gestalt characters, too aren't they?
(Reply to #4) NalaufeinHasrov	Goon-for-Hire wrote:
#6 MonsterEnvy Feb 17, 2015 16:30:27	Why are you asking a 3.5 question on the 5e fourm?
#7 Goon-for-Hire Feb 17, 2015 16:31:16	When planning encounters for Gestalts add about a quarter of their level again to their ECL.  So 40th level gestalts are closer to 50th level in capability.  Probably more if they did a smart build.
#8 Archon007 Feb 17, 2015 18:11:17	I think you are completely in the wrong forum. This is 5e and only goes to level 20
(Reply to #6) NalaufeinHasrov	It isn't a 3.5 question, I simply allowed him to use that 3.5 class and I just used the 3.5 Epic, that's it. I just wanted to continue on the campaign since we liked the characters.      MonsterEnvy wrote:
(Reply to #8) NalaufeinHasrov	It isn't a 3.5 question, I simply allowed him to use that 3.5 class and I just used the 3.5 Epic, that's it. I just wanted to continue on the campaign since we liked the characters.      Archon007 wrote:
#11 Archon007 Feb 17, 2015 22:27:04	NalaufeinHasrov wrote:
(Reply to #11) NalaufeinHasrov	Archon007 wrote:
#13 Archon007 Feb 18, 2015 11:36:40	NalaufeinHasrov wrote:
#14 AaronOfBarbaria Feb 18, 2015 16:55:39	The only advice given thus far has been for the 3.5 rules (because that's what it looked like was being used when asking the initial question), while the other posters (myself included) are confused as to what is even going on.   5e has no rules or guidelines for characters of higher than 20th level, no gestalt rules, no rules for prestige classes, no rules for assassin as an independent class, no chronomancer class, and does not have rules or guidelines for monsters of CR greater than 30.   If you want any input from us out here in the internet that is actually useful on purpose (Goon-for-Hire may have accidentally provided something useful, even though he thought you were asking a 3.5 rules question), you are going to have to fill us in on how you are handling each and every piece of rules listed above as not being in 5e yet.
#15 ORC_Cricket Feb 18, 2015 17:03:20	We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.   You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct   Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.   Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.     Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.