Creating a new class input from fellow DMs - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 krolbrien12 Apr 10, 2015 4:33:05	So, I am creating this thread to ask you guys for some advice as I understake this mini project.
#2 krolbrien12 Apr 10, 2015 4:36:48	I was a big fan of EQ, more acuratly EQOA for the PS2. I Played a Shadow Knight on there for a while. I am wanting to recreate that character in dnd 5e. I am conflicted as to what proficances in Saving Throws I should put. I know STR is a defiante one, But the next I am not sure if it shoudl be Wis, Cha or Int
#3 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 10, 2015 5:43:47	Oathbreaker paladin (DMG). If that isn't spot on, mod it further, or mod the Eldritch Knight to use necromancy and illusion. Rule One of designing new classes is to ask if you need one; most existing classes can be described as a great many things.
#4 paulstrait Apr 10, 2015 6:03:01	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 10, 2015 9:39:05	The two required reading articles on this are: On The Philosophy of Class Design - Written for 3.5, but the same basic ideas apply here. Augmented, however, since 5e is actively trying to avoid 3.5's class bloat. Unearthed Arcana: Modifying Classes - An official source by a professional game designer specifically for 5e. It's tailored for how to modify existing classes, and shows the level of thought you should have before you undertake even a simple tweak. I need to write an article soon that will show off the ins and outs of reflavoring, which is the third component here (changing descriptions instead). Here's an example I wrote a while ago. (it was 3.5, again, but the same logic applies here. And curiously, it maps on to PaulStrait's story pretty well!) The most extreme reflavoring I've ever seen described an "elemental changeling", an arcane bio-engineering experiment where the humanoid could shift its body partially into water (causing swords to pass through him if he could see them first, missing when they should have hit), air (to glide along walls and at high speeds), and even stone (to solidify his limbs right before striking). He had other abilities as well, mostly based around enhanced senses and other transmutations, such as liquifying his arms to wrap around things before solidifying them into stone to hold them, shifting his body to gas to let magic effects pass through him, and shifting to water, absorbing extra moisture from the air to reconstitute his wounds. Several of these were changes that had been so complete that they had been internalized, so they didn't even rely on magic to perform (in much the same way a fire elemental doesn't need magic to keep burning, even though basic physics would suggest he'd run out of fuel eventually), but a few of the more exotic abilities still relied upon it. What was he, in the rules? Show The 'elemental changeling' was a single-class Monk. These abilities were, respectively, his AC bonus, speed bonus / slow fall, improved unarmed damage, high Wisdom / Still Mind, Improved Grapple, Evasion, and Wholeness of Body. (He had planned to pick up some psionic feats that would work in the same way. Up the Walls would have the same flavor as Slow Fall, just being slightly more magic dependent.) He even described the Lawful alignment requirement by suggesting that he'd been conditioned since birth by his arcane creators to obey authority, and these same wizards were the ones "renewing his magic" or "upgrading the enhancements" when he gained a level. The multiclass restriction was the penalty for disobeying these wizards' orders, essentially contaminating the experiment. Quite a long way from the kung fu master thematically, but mechanically identical to the stock monk.
#6 supreme_slayer Apr 10, 2015 9:41:56	Also, classes always have for their proficiencies one common save (Dex, Con, Wis) and one uncommon (Str, Int, Cha). So keep that in mind if you ever plan to change save proficiencies.
#7 Bloodscythe Apr 10, 2015 10:47:38	As the shadowknight was simply a fighter/necromancer hybrid, I'd imagine the eldritch knight with necromancy spells is the closest match. Or, you can multiclass as a fighter/necromancer.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

krolbrien12

Apr 10, 2015 4:33:05

So, I am creating this thread to ask you guys for some advice as I understake this mini project.

krolbrien12

Apr 10, 2015 4:36:48

I was a big fan of EQ, more acuratly EQOA for the PS2. I Played a Shadow Knight on there for a while. I am wanting to recreate that character in dnd 5e.

I am conflicted as to what proficances in Saving Throws I should put. I know STR is a defiante one, But the next I am not sure if it shoudl be Wis, Cha or Int

Tempest_Stormwind

Apr 10, 2015 5:43:47

Oathbreaker paladin (DMG). If that isn't spot on, mod it further, or mod the Eldritch Knight to use necromancy and illusion. Rule One of designing new classes is to ask if you need one; most existing classes can be described as a great many things.

paulstrait

Apr 10, 2015 6:03:01

Tempest_Stormwind wrote:

Tempest_Stormwind

Apr 10, 2015 9:39:05

The two required reading articles on this are:

On The Philosophy of Class Design - Written for 3.5, but the same basic ideas apply here. Augmented, however, since 5e is actively trying to avoid 3.5's class bloat.

Unearthed Arcana: Modifying Classes - An official source by a professional game designer specifically for 5e. It's tailored for how to modify existing classes, and shows the level of thought you should have before you undertake even a simple tweak.

I need to write an article soon that will show off the ins and outs of reflavoring, which is the third component here (changing descriptions instead). Here's an example I wrote a while ago. (it was 3.5, again, but the same logic applies here. And curiously, it maps on to PaulStrait's story pretty well!)

The most extreme reflavoring I've ever seen described an "elemental changeling", an arcane bio-engineering experiment where the humanoid could shift its body partially into water (causing swords to pass through him if he could see them first, missing when they should have hit), air (to glide along walls and at high speeds), and even stone (to solidify his limbs right before striking). He had other abilities as well, mostly based around enhanced senses and other transmutations, such as liquifying his arms to wrap around things before solidifying them into stone to hold them, shifting his body to gas to let magic effects pass through him, and shifting to water, absorbing extra moisture from the air to reconstitute his wounds. Several of these were changes that had been so complete that they had been internalized, so they didn't even rely on magic to perform (in much the same way a fire elemental doesn't need magic to keep burning, even though basic physics would suggest he'd run out of fuel eventually), but a few of the more exotic abilities still relied upon it.

What was he, in the rules?
Show
The 'elemental changeling' was a single-class Monk. These abilities were, respectively, his AC bonus, speed bonus / slow fall, improved unarmed damage, high Wisdom / Still Mind, Improved Grapple, Evasion, and Wholeness of Body. (He had planned to pick up some psionic feats that would work in the same way. Up the Walls would have the same flavor as Slow Fall, just being slightly more magic dependent.) He even described the Lawful alignment requirement by suggesting that he'd been conditioned since birth by his arcane creators to obey authority, and these same wizards were the ones "renewing his magic" or "upgrading the enhancements" when he gained a level. The multiclass restriction was the penalty for disobeying these wizards' orders, essentially contaminating the experiment.

Quite a long way from the kung fu master thematically, but mechanically identical to the stock monk.

supreme_slayer

Apr 10, 2015 9:41:56

Also, classes always have for their proficiencies one common save (Dex, Con, Wis) and one uncommon (Str, Int, Cha). So keep that in mind if you ever plan to change save proficiencies.

Bloodscythe

Apr 10, 2015 10:47:38

As the shadowknight was simply a fighter/necromancer hybrid, I'd imagine the eldritch knight with necromancy spells is the closest match. Or, you can multiclass as a fighter/necromancer.