**Spoilers**
I would like to hear from those of you who have actually run the encounter with Venomfang as part of the LMoP module:
- Did you run the fight within the confines of the tower, or did you run it outdoors, perhaps on the path leading to the tower?
- Did the party actually try to fight the dragon, or did they somehow manage to avoid a fight?
- If they did try to fight the dragon, did they manage to drive the dragon off? Did any of the party members get dropped to 0 HP or killed? If the party won the fight, how did they do so well? What level were they?
Thanks,
Leugren
DaveDash wrote:
I thought I would mention here that it's worth reading up on the green dragon entry in the MM. If Venomfang ends up wiping the floor with the party, it doesn't need to end with a TPK, as the MM says that green dragons *never* kill all their foes. They like to keep some alive for ransom or to "add" to their treasure hoard.
pukunui wrote:
Our Venomfang encounter was a bit dicey, but I think we only had three PCs that day. The players knew that the dragon and Thundertree was going to be the final encounter for LMoP, and waited until the very end to fight the dragon. The party consisted of (I think)...
5th Level Dwarven Light Domain Cleric with the Dragon Scale Armor (I gave it resistance against all Dragon Breath regardless).
5th Level Dwarven "Champion" GWF Fighter
5th Level Dwarven Eldritch Knight Protection Fightert
and possibly a 3rd Level Dwarven Paladin
also an NPC Goblin wtih a shortbow accompanied the party. He is like their adopted pet they spared from an earlier encounter.
I had changed up the Thundertree scenario, and the town of Phandalin came out in full force to fight off the Dragon Cultists. The party had already scouted Thundertree and was forewarned by the Druid what abounds within the perimeter of Thundertree. The townfolks were also electing a new mayor so Halia and Stonehill had their respective forces of NPCs come out. to fight with them. After a battle against the cultists, Venomfang was taunted out of his tower to face off against the dwarves (and hidden Goblin).
The dwarves decided to scatter and "dodge" as opposed to their usual tight formation, hjoping Venomfang would be drawn to one of them. Instead, the dragon found a good angle to catch the two fighters in his breath, I think knocking both unconscious, or perhaps only the Champion was knocked out. The Cleric proceeded to revive the Champion and taunted the creature to himself while the goblin ran over and revived the Eldritch Knight with a heal pot. Venomfang turned and clawed and bit at the Cleric, dishing out some damage. The dwarves fought on wailing on the dragon, but by turn three or four, Venomfang recharged his breath, and unleashed its fury on the Cleric, who, I believed, was gassed into unconsciousness.
At this point the Champion and Eldritch Knight went all in, knowing that it was all or nothing, and did as much damage as they could deal, meanwhile the goblin managed to crit (I know, it wasn't a lot of damage) against the dragon. Venomfang dropped below half health and took flight, to reassess the situation (meant to recharge his breath), but after some Magic Missiles from the Knight and another crit from the Goblin shortbow, the dragon decided better and cursed the dwarves and flew off.
Which makes Venomfang a fun NPC mob that will show up at some point further down the campaign. =)
did you took in account that dwarves have resistance to poison damage so they take 1/2 damage from the breath if the fail the con save and 1/4 if they succed?
anyway my pcs hired 2 lvl 5 assassins (at the cost of any magic item the dragon may had), surprising and winning the initiative agains the dragon, those two alone almost or actually halven dragon hp in the first round (can't remeber). I am not suggesting this way because is pretty sad.
As a player, we saved the dragon until the very end of the entire starter set, and leveled up to 5 and immediately went after him. Our DM had the tower with a roof, so the dragon was trapped inside the building and was unable to escape. We took some crazy damage in the first four rounds after three breath weapon attacks. The cleric healed the entire time and kept bless up. The fighters and rogue had a hard time hitting him. My elf wizard pregen did the vast majority of the damage by spamming magic missiles over and over from afar while the fighters kept the dragon engaged. The fight ended with the rogue and the dragon dead, and both fighters unconscious making death saves, which the cleric took care of as soon as the dragon died. That ended the campaign and those PCs.
I just ran him as a DM last month. The party was level three, and it was going to be a TPK. The dragon flew out of his tower and ambushed the party at one of the houses south of his tower. My motive for moving him from his lair is that he was awakened by battle sounds and investigated what was going on around his lair. Seeing adventurers, he decided to take any wealth that he assumed they might have. Our charismatic druid got knocked out of her second wild shape for the day by a further breath weapon attack, and with her rogue companion on his second failed death save she went into social engagement mode. I have been using the Gamemaster Plot Twist Cards (and the sequel Flashback cards) with this group, and she used a card and also rolled a nat 20 on her social roll to influence the dragon. He demanded tribute in the form of all of their carried coin. After stabilizing the rogue, they all paid up. Two of them gave the dragon everything. The other three players chose to give partial gold and roll sleight of hand, all three passing. If they had failed I would have restarted combat and killed those three. As it was, the PCs escaped with their lives and two of them were penniless and heckled by the other three...
Dragon breath attacks is a game changer, and doubly so if it recharges with any frequency. In both of my experiences the dragon used breath weapon three times, and it is brutal. I suggest playing dragons as very intelligent, and three dimensional. Make them fly, grapple, and heckle the members with combat banter. Unless ambushed, having some precombat dialog is great, and combat would even be optional. I would definitely make his lair/tower have a tunnel, hole in wall, or missing roof so that he has some mobility. A group of level 5 PCs should have no difficulty taking him on though, and meeting the half hit point condition for him to flee.
Azylynne wrote:
Conterter wrote:
Yeah the extra resistance to the poison damage helped our dwarf cleric in the first battle keep the party from wiping, and his HP above half.
DM_HEEGZ wrote:
No experience, but that has never stopped me before.
- a Paladin's "Declare Duel" spell might force Venomfang into tactically dumb decisions. The other PCs can take advantage of his mistakes.
- Druid Wild Shape into a natural creature to scout out the area before fight begins. Like Venomfang is going to launch breath weapons on every sparrow or fox that wanders through his front lawn.
- If you can get a Monk5 up close, Stunning Strike to mess up Venomfang's next turn.
- Anybody with Inspiring Words feat should note that the THP do not wear off until a rest is taken, so you can give your speech at the edge of town, not in front of Venomfang's door.
- Everybody should PREPARE their Nova ahead of time to be used on the dragon.
- Everybody should get together and figure out how to act like a team, not a bunch of solo stars.
- Ranger should save spell slots for the "Hail of Arrows" family of spells, not just Hunter's Mark. You want to be able to work at range.
- Ranger's "Minefield" spell might be good if Venomfang MUST walk through some fixed point (such as the front door to his lair).
- Haul a 4e Warlord out of retirement to give you tactical pointers 
- Any Outlander PC can make maps in his head. Rent a Cartographers' Guild member to make maps on paper, then everybody study them.
- If I understand correctly, a Sorcerer can Fireball twice in one turn, one time only. Save this capability for Venomfang personally
- Heat Metal on the dragon's hoard of coins will encourage him to get off them. If you really want him to follow you ... say, into a trap you have set up.
- Witch Bolt (or anything else that keeps going over several turns) should be prepared for that day. If the dragon ignores you on his turn, you don't have to worry about Concentration checks.
- Think up ways to use trees as cover. This dragon does NOT breathe fire ! (Wood Elf and Halfling "artillery" should do this very well.)
- Everybody carry a longbow / shortbow, even if not proficient. Fighters can still contribute when Venomfang gets aloft. Only Bards have words that hurt you.
- Buy equipment (minefields, bow-and-LOTS-of-arrows, Medicine Kits) that your plan includes using.
- Gnomes' clockwork gadgets should have a use of some sort (say, carry and plant the arrowheads a Ranger uses in his "Minefield" spell.)
- If your Bard is a good "face", have him pump the countryside for rumors and solid information about the dragon / his capabilities.
- Cast Alarm as a ritual on your own campsite, just in case the dragon decides to take revenge on you. Use the "audible bell" form so HE knows that he triggered it. This will also give your Abjurer Wizard his "force field".)
- Cache some emergency supplies not far from the battlefield and away from your camp. Just in case.
- Talk shop with some of the region's lumberjacks. Learn how to chop into a tree so you can control what direction it falls. Because...
- Druid wild shapes into termites and eats through a tree trunk. (Save the bark; it's camouflage.) You now have a really impressive (but slow and not very accurate) trap ready to clobber somebody over the head with. Just hit the trunk at the critical point and ...
and most importantly...
- PLAN AHEAD.
BRJN wrote:
Oh i just think that i would allow my players to persuade the dragon that the vivern nest they recently cleared is a better home for him.
In one example above Venomfang used breath weapon 3 times. Isn't that a bit lucky when it only recharges on a 5 or 6 (from memory as I don't have the book with me) each round after its first use?
My dwarf fighter recently took part in a fight against a dragon that breathed 3 times too. I'm pretty sure the recharge rules were ignored there.
Yes it was pretty lucky. The third dragon fight we had, the breath weapon never recharged at all so... randomness for you.
Conterter wrote:
Azylynne wrote:
My group knew they was a dragon in the ruins of thundertree (the family we save in the bandit basement warned us and one of the pregen background come from Thundertree) So we scouted the outside of the village staying hidden under the tree covers, and mapped out the village.
From the map we realised that only one building was big enought to host a dragon, the tower (and the fresh giant spider kill confirm our guess)
So we prepared. The fighter want inside the house with a silence spell casted inside the house (against a dragon the healing difference of cure wound and healing word his meaningless, all we need is to bring the character back to 1HP.
The rogue climb up the tower and keep silent at the window with a pre-emptive feather fall casted on him.
The sorcerer stayed outside by the window giving me a line of sight to shoot spell, and the possibility to knee down to gain full cover from the dragon.
The cleric took the side door so he could go in heal and run back outside to safety.
We are all level 3 at the moment. My sorcerer got the staff of defense, the fighter using the longsword+1 (Talon)
Since no one did noise the fighter open the door and gain surprise on the dragon,
The rogue an assassinate attack with advantage auto crit, dealing 2d8+4d6+2d4+6 (crossbow expert)
The sorcerer sent a lvl 2 magic missile for 4d4+4 automatic force damage
The Cleric did a simply sacred flamme, he's keeping his spell for healing
The fighter went in and started to attack the dragon in melee away from the door so the dragon would have to choose where to breath since there is no way to get more then 1 victim in the area.
Then we roll initiative.
The rogue go first and get an other easy attack with advantage (but no automatic crit) for an addtional 1d8+2d6+1d4+6 damage
The sorcerer casted an other magic missile lvl 2 for an other 4d4+4
Then it's the dragon turn who fly up and breath of that pesky rogue, bringing him to almost death, but the rogue survive and fell slowly to the ground (because of feather fall) and giving the fighter an attack of opportunity but he missed it.
The fighter run outside the tower and ready an action to attack the dragon if he come within range of his javelin
The cleric hurry up outside to heal the rogue back to health.
at this point the dragon is very damaged but the team start to run out of steam (no more spell lvl 2 for the sorcerer, the rogue doesn't have sneak attack while the draogn fly, the cleric only got one more healing spell)
The dragon get lucky and recharge his breath so he use it again and bring the rogue and the cleric back down. the fighter hurry up to stabilize them.
The sorcerer decide to gamble, to convince the dragon that as a dragon sorcerer he got no intention of killing the magnificient dragon, but the dragon cannot stay here he need to leave now because they are only the scout moving ahead of the Phandalin army who want his head and in the weaken stat that he his he won't survive the army. With his high Charisma, dragon bloodline advantage he rolled like 21 and the dragon had like 10 HP left anyway before reaching half life so the dragon escaped giving the victory the the player.
Sorxores wrote:
sorry for the offtopic but can you tell me how your rogue is doing 1d8+2d6+1d4+6 damage at lvl 3 (i'm gonna steal that build :P)
edit i probably got it: 1d8 light crossbow, 2d6 sneak damage, 1d4(should be 1d6) hand crossbow and 2 attack with +3 damage makes +6
Conterter wrote:
Conterter wrote:
When I ran my group through this part of the adventure, they were forewarned about Venomfang by the Druid, who also told them about the cultists who were on the edge of the village. The party first went to the cultists and pretended to be interested in joining with them, and after some good negotiating, got the cultists to agree to take them along to meet Venomfang. I initally had the dragon perched on top of his tower while the cultists tried to negotiate with the dragon and the characters kind of hung back. Venomfang was not overly interested in the cultists, but the characters then made a few choice remarks, and basically goaded Venomfang into attacking. The cultists provided fodder for a couple of rounds while the party peppered away with ranged attacks and spells. Venomfang took some pretty decent damage, and even though he probably could have stayed and completely tpk'd the party, he decided to take flight and lick his wounds.
I realized going in that there was a pretty good chance for a tpk, so since the group made some pretty crafty decisions (and some good roleplaying conversation) I let Venomfang escape while not wiping out the party.
FrankD20 wrote:
Looking through the 3rd-level spells (which an L5 Wizard just gets access to), a few stuck out:
Sleet Storm in the doorway to the dragon's lair; keeps him from wanting to get out. If he's big enough and you place it carefully, your friends can be on one side of him and the storm hits the other half.
Animate Dead + a 3-day weekend + careful timing = 4-6 minions that will keep going for a few hours in the morning, plus your overnight long rest refreshed your spell slots. If your party is melee-heavy, place them about 60' from the dragon's front door (under the trees if you can), give them bows-and-arrows and orders "Shoot at the dragon". If your party is ranged-heavy, give them 2H weapons and send them in the front door with orders "Attack the dragon", to flush him out. (Alternate: send them in after the Fighter / Paladin as a second wave, with orders "Attack whatever he does."
Hypnotic Pattern might get you a few rounds while the dragon is too dazzled to fight or flee.
Magic Circle does NOT protect against dragons - 
- what are the rules for researching variations of a spell ? Somebody should have already thought of this ! 
Call Lightning over the dragon's tower, with you hidden behind total cover, should make the dragon wish he had stayed inside
Gaseous Form one of your friends to get a complete scouting of the lair beforehand - several days before, I recommend - then as Step One of The Plan, enable an Assassin to get in place for his Surprise attack. (I have a Monk who is an Outlander and Perception(max) who will volunteer for the first part and can then draw up a map back at your HQ.)
BRJN wrote:
My first post on the forums. We just did the Venomfang encounter last night.
I DM for my wife and daughters (6 & 8). I introduced the kids to BECMI and as 5e came out, they added it to my Xmas list for me. So we are playing LMoP. We dispensed with the pre-gens, which of course makes things a bit interesting considering the hooks involved. And everyone had to make their own character from the PHB. The party consists of a brass dragonborn paladin (mom), a drow wizard (daughter 8), a tiefling sorcoress (daughter 6), and a half-orc ranger (moi). Makes for testy introductions, needless to say...
The party came across the druid before any other significant encounter in Thundertree. Accepting his deal, they gained his help to skirt around the town ruins and crawl up the steep hill that the tower sits on. As they climbed up the hill, they spotted the cultists approaching the tower with their tribute to Venomfang. After watching what they could of that exchange, they decided to follow the cultists to their hideout and confronted them. Things went from bad to worse for the cultists, as negotiations soured quickly. This left only one cultist alive to tie-up and question.The info gained from the cultist was sketchy at best, but the party understood that the Dragon Cult has evolved its typical activity of raising draco-liches and undead dragons to gaining some sort of alliance with live dragons. (Foreshadowing the future events in HotDQ)
The girls thought up a way of trying to scare Venomfang, by claiming that two draco-liches were unleashed to push Venomfang out of the tower. Thus, dressed in Dragon Cultist garb, they approached Venomfang with this frightening news. Because of the backgrounds and races of the party, we had a previous read-in about green dragons, and the players were very aware of the tendancies of green dragons. The characters were relieved when Venomfang appeared to be startled, thankful, and somewhat frightened. He climbed and scampered his way up the tower to the hole in the roof and flew away...only to come back a few moments later as the party was patting itself on the back and checking out his horde. "Hey, is that a shadow on the floor...." Venomfang wasted no time opening up with his breath weapon and following up with his claws. The action was fast and furious (love 5e's combat, it is brutal and quick!), with everyone getting some licks in, but the majority of the damage came from the spellcasters. When the dust settled (and Venomfang was reduced to half HPs - 1/3 actually), the wizard was down but stabalized, the fighters down to 1/3 HPs and the sorceress was the best off at half HP. It was an insanely lucky encounter for the party, if it had been the basic pre-gens, I am sure more death would have been the result. Ah, but fear not, Venomfang has lived to fight again. And dragons live long and do not forget.
Never underestimate a six year old with chromatic orb....
DrunkenHobgoblin wrote: