Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 JoyrexJ9 Aug 22, 2014 3:29:44	I've been slowly absorbing the excellent adventure material in the Starter Set over the last few weeks, and now I’ve got hold of Hoard Of The Dragon Queen I’m pretty disappointed in what I’ve read so far. Episode 1 reads like it hasn’t been finished, no map of the town, no detail on the keep, the two NPCs are paper thin, no explaination to the DM how to try to string all these "missions" together. The whole thing plays out like a series of forced, randomised combat encounters with little or no reason behind them; “so you turn the corner and oh look there’s *another* group of cultists and Kobolds”. Let’s say my players make it to the keep – what do I tell them? “yeah um, you’re now inside the keep, it’s erm, yeah a keep”  I know I can take the time to sit down & flesh all this out with my own details but it’s the sort of thing I was expecting book to at least meet me half way on, not leave me to construct 70% of the detail and setting. It’s going to be a challenge for any DM to make this all flow properly. For a product that a lot of first time DMs will be picking up something seems amiss.  Am I being too harsh? Expecting too much?
#2 DarkCrisis77 Aug 22, 2014 9:15:08	JoyrexJ9 wrote:
#3 Eugee Aug 22, 2014 9:16:30	Hmmm.   We're on opposite sides of the fence, then.  I've been very impressed with the adventure so far (I've read through Episode 4).  Episode 1 plays out in hour long increments (spelled out in the text) where various things happen.  It's not on rails, for sure--so the players decide where they want to go and you've got some suggestions for how to use NPCs to nudge them if they are balking.  I liked it.   However, I'm in Episode 4 now... and one of the random encounters has four CR 8 NPCs (15,600 XP without # multipliers) involved, and based on the reading it really seems like a fight is what is expected.  A deadly encounter for four level-4 characters is 2,000 XP...   I understand that the encounter doesn't require the players to fight, but even the text suggests that a fight is going to happen.
#4 mahughes1970 Aug 22, 2014 9:20:40	As much as hate to admit it I have to concur with you on this point, I got the exact same feeling as I was doing a read through of Hoard Of The Dragon Queen. I generally try not to criticize on these forums and mainly only use it to get ideas and inspiration from other players, but I gotta say your fairly well spot on with your comment. There are a lot of gaps in the story line that I feel should have been fleshed out more fully by the designers after all the price tag for the book would seem to dictate a fully completed project. I do understand, in Kobold Press defense, that they were attempting to create a usable product before even the Basic rules had been fully released, so I am sure that was a difficult undertaking.   As you stated I also find the lack of a detailed town map, some of the major player NPC's not having been statted out, the caravan journey to Baldur's Gate not well fleshed out and several other things to be a bit strange for a module that is intended for experienced as well as new DM's to use.   Personally I will be doing a good bit of homework prior to running this adventure. The plot, the art work, the overall design and concept are really good, but it is going to require a good deal of work on the part of any DM (new or experienced) to make it all flow smoothly.   For now I will just chalk it up to growing pains for the new edition and see how they step up their game for the next adventure. Cheers!!!!
#5 Gwathir Aug 22, 2014 9:38:24	I like it because it fits my DM style, the parts they leave out I usually make up on my own anyway. What bothers me is that you have to pay to get print outs of the maps - that should have been included with the adventure, especially a print out of the Sword Coast map... heck you even have to pay to get a digital copy of it, very dissapointing.
#6 Eugee Aug 22, 2014 9:58:23	Yeah, the price of the maps is RIDICULOUS from the artist.  But, I just scanned the book maps, which is fine for the overland stuff.  For the keyed maps, I agree that these should be available on the WotC website, or the book shouldn't cost so much...   Anyway, I love the adventure, I think it's very well written, and I've yet to come across an NPC where I was thinking "why didn't I get stats for them?"   I love Episode 4, too--here's a bunch of random encounters for you to use at your leisure, and here's a set of stuff that needs to happen along the way.  Bam--turn the characters loose.
#7 zgrose Aug 22, 2014 11:07:27	~$2 isn't ridiculous.   Episode 1 seems intended to play Theater of the Mind style. Probably could trim out some of the encounters though to achieve the same effect ("save us, heroes!"). I'll probably try running 2 or 3 of the more interesting ones and then jump to the finale show-down unless the players are really grooving on the town battles.
#8 Eugee Aug 22, 2014 12:36:05	If you want all the maps from HotDQ from the artist it's like $70...   ~$2 is for a single map!   Doesn't matter, I scanned all the maps @ 200-600 DPI and clone brushed the DM info off the maps.  For a $30 adventure, it miffs me that the art isn't made available by WotC.
#9 Shade92000 Aug 22, 2014 14:45:23	I agree with you and I think I understand why it was done that way. I think they were trying to avoid players feeling railroaded into something, but I think some advice would have been helpful. I think I plan to have them get to the keep after saving the lady and her children (she advises them to go to the keep. I will then have a mission assigned to them and discribe the carnage around the town and give information to and from the set mission like on your way back you see a barn burning down and different things mixed in with the description that they players can say hey we see a barn lets check it out. I really wish some more info would have been provided as I don't have a lot of time to come up with things as a DM but on the other hand I understand. It does look like an engaging story and one I and my players will like.
#10 Eugee Aug 22, 2014 14:52:22	Shade92000, I'm getting the impression you've mostly had a chance to only skim the Episode, because you're basically covering all the suggestions in the book itself.  (I'm not being negative with that, I'm just feeling out if I'm right.)   There's a whole section talking about tips to keep them moving from one mission onto the next--Govenor Nighthill is an easy mouthpiece for just that kind of direction!
(Reply to #10) Shade92000	Eugee wrote:
#12 gregsc Aug 22, 2014 19:26:53	I like that it's a bunch of content for me to do what I want with. That's exactly what I'm looking for. I can hack any published adventure, but it's easier and smoother when the adventure is designed for hacking.