Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ansbach Sep 07, 2014 14:57:57	So I can't help but notice that Tyranny of Dragons isn't getting nearly as good of a reception as the Lost Mine of Phandelver.   What do you guys think who have read it or started running it?  Do your players like it?  Did you try to "fix it" first? How?
#2 DM_HEEGZ Sep 07, 2014 20:09:06	We've been enjoying it so far. Nothing to fix really... The first chapter is pretty brutal though and we had to give up direct combat confrontations after a few combats.
#3 pauldanielj2 Sep 07, 2014 21:00:52	Also enjoying it here. Ditto the first session being tough, combat-wise. I consider that a good thing. I tried to hint strongly to the players that direct confrontation was not going to be a good idea, and after coming perilously close to TPKing a couple of times they finally got the idea. My players are also learning that if their only strategy is "charge" they won't win many fights, and that unlike other editions, there's absolutely no reason to laugh at kobolds in 5e.   In a larger sense, the adventure can be seen as somewhat linear. The episodes follow a prescribed order, and there really isn't any way for the PCs to alter how the adventure unfolds. But, in a more 'micro' sense, the adventure doesn't have to FEEL linear. I'm trying to give the players a lot of leeway to approach each episode as they choose. So far, so good.
#4 zombieman1793 Sep 07, 2014 21:56:14	I am enjoying it also but i have one player that is challangeing every bit of it so far. and we just got to episode 2. First he is pissed because noone has gold on the when they kill anything then he gets mad when our palading goes outto fight the dragonborn when he yells out his challeng. Not sure yet what to do with him. He may just be rebelling agains 5th ed.
#5 Oraibi Sep 08, 2014 2:01:43	I get the sense that part of the problem is that it's trying to be forced into the Encounters model where it doesn't fit, and I think a lot of people who are playing it Encounters are seeing big problems with the adventure because of that.   If it weren't pushed as the organized play adventure, I suspect you'd see more positive reception to the adventure.   (For those who have commented on or will be commenting on this thread, have you been playing in home games or in AL?)
#6 Ansbach Sep 08, 2014 7:43:05	Thanks for the feedback so far.   Oraibi wrote:
#7 JRutterbush Sep 08, 2014 8:35:49	We just started our game last night, and it's been okay so far. We just got to the keep. I think one of the main reasons we did so well is because we didn't go into this looking at it like yet another "Here are some things, kill them!" adventure. We had a Bard, a Paladin and a Sorcerer, all with 16 Charisma, with one former cultist and one cult infiltrator, so we mostly just deceptioned our way through. Obviously there's a lot more of the first episode to go, but I tihnk we'll be okay if we don't just try to rush in and kill everything in sight. It seems like that's what a lot of people expect from adventures these days, so it seems to me like that might be what's causing most of the troubles.
#8 Swede1985 Sep 08, 2014 8:58:07	The only thing I found that is real problem (with my players at least) is there is really no motivation for the players to take down the cult other than "cause you are heroes". I mean, that's okay, and my players sort of don't mind, but just thought I'd mention it. Also, very linear and very samey. "Infiltrate the Cult" happens like...four times or something.
#9 Kentus Sep 08, 2014 9:02:35	I think experienced players will tend to have problems at the first chapter, since a lot of those with 'experience' simply kills things, thinking that the DM or modul-writer won't kill them. But for 1st level characters the number of possible combats and events which triggers combats are overwhelming. If your players are smart enough to not seek every fight head-on, they'll have a much greater time.   My advices would be:   1.) If there is reason that the enemies aren't as ready as the PCs, just play it so. This will decimate the number of attacks greatly. Like looking for/collecting the treasures of Greenest.   2.) Reward smart thinking of the PCs by letting them surprise their enemies or maybe even fall to one or two trickeries (like my Draconic Sorcerer used his Scales to deceive the kobolds to believe, he's on their side and here to warn them, that these special cultists who were with the kobolds are traitors).   3.) Be sure to let the players grab 1-2 Potions of Healing, if they'll run dry soon.     I think the campaign is great, even though there are far less magic items for PCs than in Lost Mines. Even though it isn't plainly written there, there is tons of chances to actually enhance the exploration and social interaction part of the game, especially the latter. But since most NPCs are just roughly scetched, you'll need to think a bit about how to involve them and how far you want them to flesh out. But since I like it that way, I've to say, it's great. ;)
#10 akschmid Sep 08, 2014 12:50:34	I think it is interesting. Episode One and Two, I think, are good to teach players that sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. That is, if you attack everything instead of finding other solutions you will die. I also like some of the events in Episode Four as well. My big complaint is that it it feels much more railroaded than Phandelver and there are a number of errors in the book and sometimes guidance on how to run NPC seems incomplete..
#11 TrueManiek Sep 08, 2014 13:50:23	From what I read the adventure is pretty deadly at first… So I went and did a little prolog for my players, making them care about the cult and getting them to 2 lvl. I mean it still should be hard even for 2lvl characters…… oh wait we have a moon druid… ummmm
#12 acfarrey Sep 08, 2014 16:35:10	To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed from a DM perspective. When I purchased HOTDQ, I expected the open & go style of the Starter Set. The way the adventure is laid out, the DM has to read the episode several times to pull out the essence of the adventure vs. loads of minute details that most players aren't going to care about. My players practically revolted during episode 2 as it was seen as a suicide mission to try to infiltrate the camp - especially on the heels of the lop-sided duel at the end of episode 1. The players actually enjoyed episode 3 as it was a pretty decent dungeon crawl. We started episode 4 last weekend, and I could sense they lost interest when they realized they were going to be caravanning for the foreseeable future.    To me the biggest problem is there is no "bad guy". The cultists are all nameless and faceless. While Rezmir has been mentioned, there is no reason for the players to hate him or want to track him down. Maybe it's the episodic nature, but the story just isn't jiving with my group that plays weekly. (Some weeks 2x week). Don't get me wrong. I love 5e. I love the Starter Set. I can't believe that as good as the game and the first products were, that the "flagship adventure" is really not very good.
#13 Kennethray Sep 09, 2014 5:57:22	We are almost done with the First "Dungeon" and all things are going well. The biggest issues are the "experianced" players. Attempting to use spells, skills and checks in ways that were used in previous edtions or more to the point Pathfinder, is causing some problems. The newer people are a lot easier to work with. I think once we get the ways things are done with the new system and figuring out the agreed upon understanding of specific rules it will be a lot better. Combat is faster, some people are starting to think outside the box and Everyone is having fun. What more could you ask for?   Once more expanded rulse come out on magic item crafting (if any) it should make some happier. Just got to wait on DM guide then any following books to come out.   K-Ray
#14 Kennethray Sep 09, 2014 6:00:17	http://community.wizards.com/forum/dungeon-master-help/threads/4136386 I had started a log on my experiance with this game, but not much intrest in it. I am not much of a writer and it shows, but I did make the attempt. here it is with listed issues I came accross.
#15 crimfan07 Sep 09, 2014 6:04:33	After Scales of War, the rule here was "No more Tiamat."
#16 jdarksong Sep 09, 2014 11:39:33	My group has been disappointed with the lack of tangible reward through episode two.  Looking ahead, I don't see much in three or four either - I may add some treasure in to compensate.  Only the last two scenarios had much in the way of treasure.  I suppose without the DM guide out there's not a lot of guidance, but ,... seems very low.
#17 MarcCCTx Sep 09, 2014 12:11:19	I'm not up on Forgotten Realms lore. What do dragons think of these Dragon Cultists?   OK good dragons might not like them because they're evil, but why would evil dragons like them? Apparently they were trying to create undead dragons, ("I'm sorry, but I don't want to be an undead dragon.") and not they're trying to free Tiamat, ("Yeah, I want someone more powerful than I poking her norses into my buisness.") Why are they helping these guys?   I'm not trolling, I really want some opinions on this?   Thanks
#18 Bumamgar Sep 09, 2014 12:20:08	The dragons don't really 'help' the cultists so much as tolorate them and allow the cultists to worship them (at least from the dragon's perspective).  The evil dragons worship Tiamat, so at least some of them are invested in having her return, even if logically it wouldn't make much sense.  The dragons presented thus far have been largely ambivalent to the actions of the cult.  The dragon in the first scenario doesn't want to be bothered with attacking Greenest and is only there half-heartedly.  The only other dragon that actually appears in the entirety of HotDQ is lairing within a floating castle owned by a cloud giant.  That dragon is a dutiful worshiper of Tiamat who hopes to be rewarded by her when she manifests.
#19 Bumamgar Sep 09, 2014 12:31:06	jdarksong wrote:
#20 dwgautier Sep 09, 2014 15:53:53	I'm taking the +1 longsword, +1 longbow and +1 leather armor from the dragons hoard, and sprinkling those items throughout the first 4 acts.  I think it is a slap in the face to get an item as simple as +1 at lvl 8.  Now those bracers of armor are really mighty so ill keep them with all that gold in the hoard.
#21 5Shilling Sep 11, 2014 0:18:08	I am still reading it, but I have to say... No.   To start with the presentation is not the best. The prose style makes it really hard to find stuff. It will not be usable at table; I will need to fill up a whole notebook if I want to run it. The art is pretty bad too - especially the character portraits, which have very poor facial anatomy (they all look like they have broken noses and wonky eyes). Exterior maps look nice, if bland; interior maps aren't as good. I expect better in an official WotC sanctioned product.   The adventure is very, very generic, at both an overall scale right down to individual scenes and locations. Most NPCs don't have much personality and are barely described. Most encounters are simply "fight some monsters" with no quirks or interesting twists. The twists that are thrown in are not as interesting as the authors think. Dialogue is poorly writen and there's not a lot of inspiration for improvising more.   The thing that annoyed me most so far is lack of explanation for stuff. The book assumes you have already read everything there is to read about Forgotten Realms and Cult of the Dragon. It took me several minutes of searching through the book to find out that a Dragonclaw and Dragonwing are ranks, not a type of new creature  I had abosultly no idea (the information actually comes 3 pages after the first dragonclaw makes an appearance, and appendix B tells you nothing about he appearance or nature of a given enemy) Also, how is a half-dragon different to a dragonborn? I don't know, because the adventure just gives me stuff without telling me anything at all about it. It is back to the bad old 4E ways of "all that matters is the numbers in the stat block, who cares what it looks like or how it behaves?"   Here's a clue as to how genric it is: so far, there is nothing I would want to steal and put into another campaign. That's bad. aLl good adventures should have locations, or mosters or encounters or treasure or tables or sub-systems that are so good and stand-alonne that you want to cut them out and keep them for another time. I good adenture is also part setting book and part rules expansion.   I bought the book because it has been a long time since I purchased an official adventure and I was curious to see how they might look for 5E. I love 5E. I think it might be my favourite version of the game. But if all 5E official adventures are going to be like this, then I won't be buying them. I am certainly going to have to preview future adventures before purchase.   Look, I have been DMing gmaes like this for years. I have acted and directed plays and I am fine with improvising scenes and writing into the gaps. But for the price of this book I shouldbn't have to do so much. I would be better off starting from scratch with my own adventure - not much more work and I will be happier with the results. As I said I love 5E and I want to give it my money, so please WotC, give me more to love!   EDIT: Forgot to mention the names. Possibly the most atrocious NPC names I have ever seen. That is not an exaggeration.
#22 GuruMaux Sep 10, 2014 15:12:01	It's a decent book. After running the module and reading some reports, I would highlight 3 issues: * According to 'DM basic rules', many of the encounters in HotDQ rate as above deadly for a party of 4 characters. This problem is extreme at low levels. I know the whole 'encounter' idea is debatable, but these challenges are presented in some fights you are not supposed to avoid. * Visit some of the most interesting cities in the realms. Nothing to do there. * Episodes present the same problem Divinity:Original Sin CRPG did. You have the same general objective over and over, and continuity issues start to show as a result. Experienced DMs would easiy adapt the challenges and flavor the cities. But the infiltrating routine gets old - and unbelieavable - soon. Come on, i've been infiltrating your hidden bases, stealing your most valued treasures, chasing you all over the sword coast... And I can still just walk merrily into yet another hidden sanctuary, pretending to be the new guy?
#23 Regin_Vargtass Sep 11, 2014 6:40:25	Halfway through reading right now, and I find the module has promise. With a good selection of events and some willingness to flesh out the story, I think it will be good fun.   One thing that bothers me a bit so far is the prescriptive XP awards: Often, the module suggests awarding a certain amount of XP for dealing with a situation in a specified way. I find this annoying, a bit reminiscent of convention play scenarios in the 80ies where you often had a "best" solution that got you the most points, rather than awards for overcoming the challenge with an unbiased "win" condition, like "without earning the opponents enmity", or "without anyone noticing", rather than "by offering a hefty bribe", or "by finding the right combination of levers to pull", or whatever.   - Vargtass
#24 thorbardin Sep 11, 2014 8:34:20	I'm still reading it, and I'm not thrilled.   It's very linear, very rail-roady, with lots of other NPCs telling the PCs what to do next. I'd prefer the PCs drawing their own conclusions, and then deciding what the best course of action is, by the clues they uncover. Getting them to Greenest and providing them a reason to care about its fate is easy enough, but then after that it really has to be their own idea to 1) infiltrate the dragon cultist camp 2) return with the captured monk and NOT explore the cave at that time (which is important for other timing concerns) 3) return to the camp and NOW explore the cave 4) decide to try and follow the loot in a 2-month caravan journey, and beyond. Unfortunately, the plot is progressed not with players making decisions, but by newly met NPCs who tell them exactly what to do at the end of each episode. This poses a problem as they don't have an end goal in mind. With the new backgrounds, it's a bit of a shame that the only motivation provided is coin.    There are many errors in the adventure. Mislabelled maps, incorrect enemy types and numbers,  unupdated tables, references to deprecated rules, missing text, and just regularly old typos. It must've have been tough for them writing this while the rules were in flux, and unfortunately it shows. Good news is that there's a thread here where the errors are being collated and an author is providing guidance, which is very helpful, but it's not ideal.   The very deadly dragon encounter right up front could have been mitigated with some descriptive advice from the authors as to how not to kill the players, but still pose the threat of the dragon. This stuff could be made up by any DM worth their salt, but it's sometimes difficult to think on the spot when you're first level fighter is going to try take a swing at the adult blue dragon, and you're rolling dice. Examples like: Instead of being crushed to death, your fighter is thrown from the battlements onto a burning hay rooftop; Your cleric stands in shock as the dragon's lightning breath ricochets down the battlement, bouncing off parapets and flagstone, eviscerating everyone in front of and behind him in a shower of splintered bone, crackling armour, and crimson gore, (rolls lots of dice) but somehow it miraculously bounces harmlessly around you; you are truly blessed by your god; Your mage is saved at the last second by Timmo, one of the soldiers you had rescued earlier from the Mill, who shoves his shield between you and the dragon's jaws. Unfortunately Timmo is chomped in half, his arm still strapped to the shield now lying on the floor, but on the bright sidem you're still alive.    The art of the human/near-human characters isn't great. Strange eyes, heads and skin tones. Also a little bit boring that many of the cast of characters appear to be under 25.    I couldn't find any description of the main protagonists - be it their motivations, or even what they look like. One has to rely on the art, which is sprinkled through the book, and not where that character is first introduced, and their motivations (if they are written at all) are buried in encounter text, when the writers think you may interact with them.   I too didn't really understand the half-dragons and dragonborn ecologies and fluff, but this forum gave me quite a bit of insight.   The caravan journey is a cool way for players to deal with many NPCs over a long period of time, perhaps several sessions. Intrigue, love, boldfaced lies, backstabbing, political pressure, guilt, theft... all that good roleplay stuff is there, if you can engender it. Unfortunately a lot of that will have to be created by the DM, as the book provides only what has to happen for the plot to continue (2 or 3 encounters), and a short write up on 20 NPCs that may be travelling with the group. The write ups are nice, but don't offer enough advice as to how to introduce them to the party as they travel. It's quite a lot to manage and keep track of, some advice for beginner DMs would've been helpful. The word teamster is used a couple of times, and I'm not clear on its meaning, but have guessed it to mean someone who drives the caravan.    And last point, so many DMs, and so many WOTC higher-ups talk about interesting encounter locations. Something that makes the world magical, vibrant, memorable, a challenge in and of itself etc. This adventure doesn't have any of that. It's very classic and straight-forward in it's encounter design (with the notable excpetion of the caravan journey, but the DM is going to have to work really hard to make that work).
#25 Atheosis Sep 11, 2014 10:15:12	I actually do like the adventure overall, but I will say that for DMs looking for a complete, fully fleshed-out module it leaves a lot to be desired.  I'm actually enjoying what I see as gaps in its design (journey between Greenest and Elrutel, time spent waiting in Baldur's Gate, etc.), as I can add my own ideas to it easily without replacing much, but if a DM doesn't want to do that this would be a rather annoying thing.  And yes the encounter design is very much on the punishing side, especially early.  Anyway, I don'y usually run premades, but I thought I would go ahead for a new Roll20 group I'm playing with, ad so far I'm having fun with it.