Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dahil Feb 09, 2015 9:44:21	Hypothetical situation: The party is in charge of a hostage negotiation.  They must deliver an old, weak but politically important NPC to the invading warlord in exchange for the captured princess.  The warlord sent two armored guards and a warhorse to pick up the NPC for the exchange.  The 4 person party then subdued the guards.   The party plan is for 1 member to disguise themselves as the NPC, two to take the place of the guards, and for my druid to wild shape into the horse.  This way the NPC can stay safely far away, and once we get close enough to the exchange, we can grab the captured princess and run away.   I have a few questions, and obviously most of this is up to my individual DM, but I want to know what the DMs here on the board would do.     1.  Can a druid wildshape into a specific animal?  Can I match the fur color and patterns of a specific horse, or do I just become a generic horse?   2.  The warhorse was wearing metal barding.  Druids “will not wear armor or shields made out of metal” according to the book.  What are my options?   3.  Out of character, the other party members have stated that if I don’t put on the armor, they are planning on dumping the armor on me anyways, in order to make the ruse more convincing.  What happens then?
#2 supreme_slayer Feb 09, 2015 10:01:26	1. I treat druids as being able to transform into the animal that they met originally, and then able to alter that image when choosing to transform into something more fitting for themselves (female instead of male, removing scars, etc). However, if a situation arose where they needed to turn into a specific horse, I would probably allow them to do it with some kind of check (and if they have infinite time, just skip through the trial and error phase). 2. You kind of doomed yourself on this end, though. A druid would not willingly don metal armor, even in horse form, due to their religious/theological beliefs. 3. If it's forced upon you, I think you would be more than just grumpy, you would be like an Amish man forced to shave his beard and wear a Slayer t-shirt while driving a gas guzzler. Destroyed utterly.   These are my own thoughts, anyways.
#3 Noctaem Feb 09, 2015 10:19:40	Dahil wrote:
#4 supreme_slayer Feb 09, 2015 10:29:10	Are the players sure that they can't come up with a plan that doesn't involve outright blasphemy?
#5 Noctaem Feb 09, 2015 10:34:54	supreme_slayer wrote:
#6 supreme_slayer Feb 09, 2015 10:49:34	Why else would a druid not wear metal, but for their beliefs? It says "will not", not "don't like to". And the class is originally a priest, and of course communes with nature on a religious level... If "to protect someone" or the like was an excuse enough for a druid to wear metal armor, then they would always do it, because it's for the same purpose.   I personally am not saying it can't be done, but you would have one scorned druid who would probably feel the need to commune with nature for quite some time afterward. It essentially ends up the same as what you suggested, except a lot more RP-based.   There is technically no written penalty for a druid wearing metal armor, so a DM could rule it however they like. This is just my view. But you should look over your options first, before the players force a character to do something against their will.
#7 Noctaem Feb 09, 2015 12:02:19	supreme_slayer wrote:
#8 supreme_slayer Feb 09, 2015 12:21:05	You keep saying that I'm blocking the idea, but in fact I already explained that the character could still do it. There is no "actual" penalty in it. It's the same as if a Paladin were to break one of the tenants of their oath. There is technically, by the book, no real penalty. However, reason should be exercised in the roleplaying spectrum. It seems like metagaming to completely ignore something explicit in the book ("Druids will not wear armor of shields made of metal") just because it helps you.   Just as a Paladin might break their oath in extreme circumstance or for a greater purpose, though, a druid of course could wear the metal armor, but it would be just as abhorrent as for a Paladin with an oath of honesty to have to lie to someone's face. Thus my analogy of an Amish man shaving his beard, and why I called it blasphemy.   And again, we come back to how I was suggesting for them to brainstorm. If the druid wouldn't be willing, they would want to come up with other plans first before jumping into one that is opposed to. There are likely lots of creative solutions the players could come up with, especially if they have illusion magic available. Considering they have to somehow get a fourth player in the mix anyways, right? 4 players, but 2 guards and a horse.   EDIT: Though of course, the player's character is free to not give any care about tenants as well, just as a Paladin in 5e can forsake their oath. That just seems against the spirit of things.
#9 iserith Feb 09, 2015 12:19:42	Dahil wrote:
#10 Noctaem Feb 09, 2015 12:23:28	supreme_slayer wrote:
#11 supreme_slayer Feb 09, 2015 12:36:05	"Come up with something" is the same as brainstorm. My original statement did make it seem like I was outright saying a druid couldn't do it, and I should have expanded a bit. That is my fault.   What it comes down to, is that I'm just saying that it doesn't -seem- to me like a Druid would want to do it, but that it's -possible- to do. They aren't going to turn into a puddle just because of it, or lose their Druid powers. I was just suggesting how a druid -might- act, though the way I did say it was rather imposing on the player themselves. Even if they do hold beliefs against it, just as a Paladin sworn to honesty can lie, they could circumvent it for personal reasons.   Druids may be completely different in your setting than they are in the book, or in other people's settings. So maybe they are fine with wearing metal armor, just aren't proficient in it because they're used to more pure materials.
#12 iserith Feb 09, 2015 12:37:52	It's not armor - it's barding. Metal or not, the druid can't benefit from it and is, in fact, hindered by it.
#13 DemoMonkey Feb 09, 2015 13:00:33	The druid should not be allowed to (or forced to) wear the barding.   BUT...   If the druid can control the appearance of the creature, it turns into a horse that LOOKS like it is wearing barding (with no AC effect). That should pass a quick visual inspection and make the encounter exciting as they have to keep anyone from getting TOO close a look at the horse, or (nature forbid) actually touch it..
#14 bawylie Feb 09, 2015 13:04:44	Alternately, he's not wearing barding as protection but as disguise.
#15 Touc Feb 09, 2015 13:52:00	The Druid character says they "won't" wear armor. If you're playing the class, you won't willingly wear it.  After all, why have the language if it really reads "the druid won't wear armor, except in certain circumstance where it'd really help out his friends...."  It goes with the territory of playing the class.  For flavor, a DM might want to have an answer why as D&D 5th has chosen not to provide such answer. (Every edition prior, however, did provide the reason and penalty).   In prior editions, the Druid lost their powers when wearing metal (3rd/Pathfinder imposed a penalty for 24 hours afterwards).  Whether it was viewed as severing a druid's connection to their deity or violating a prohibitive sanction that does not distinguish whether it's for a "good cause" or such, that's what happened.  It's like Superman's krytonite. You couldn't rationalize your weakness or aversion to it.  If an enemy captured a druid, the best thing would be to shroud them in chain mail.   If you're running with the notion of lost powers, then the druid couldn't maintain animal form wearing barding, which is armor for his form.
#16 BRJN Feb 09, 2015 14:16:04	That Druid is a SHAPECHANGER.  Just grow a really thick flap of skin over your horseback that looks like barding.  Then roll a Deception (or Insight) check to get it right.   Failing that, use the real horse and the Druid can turn into something else (Giant Porcupine?) that "just happens" to show up at the meeting site when the action is supposed to start.
#17 Captain_Kobold Feb 10, 2015 1:25:04	I think that you're really going to have to ask your DM. As you can see, opinions of different DMs differ.