So I've been a DM for a couple of sessions, and I'm running in to a problem.
I'm currently running The Lost Mine of Phandelver, which I understand is a fairly simple campaign. However, with how much my players skip wildly around in the story, sometimes skipping whole dungeons and sections, I have trouble keeping track of NPCs and storylines.
Is this just a matter of me not enforcing the storyline as much as I should?
The only "should" that a DM has is that they should be doing whatever they can to make the game more enjoyable for everyone playing.
That aside, keeping track of all the different stuff going on in an adventure can get tricky - if it bothers you that you don't have it all straight and you find yourself flipping back and forth looking for some bit of info, then I suggest doing what I do:
- Get a sheet of lined paper (I actually use a notebook), label it "NPC Roster"
- Each time an NPC is met, make a note about the really important bits of info on this roster
- Make sure you keep each NPC on the roster to a single line - strictly adhering to space limitations is the best way to be sure you only write what you really need.
- Keep this roster nearby when running the game.
You can do the same for each other thing you might need to keep track of (rumors the party heard, quests they have agreed to undertake and the rewards promised, and so on), and can even do it all digitally if you are so inclined.
Don't at all think that you have to "enforce" the story, though - story is what happens as a result of playing, not a thing which exists to direct the players.
You can be more proactive with NPCs. Have the PCs bump into them on the road if they don't visit their shop. I sometimes keep separate notes to help me track all of them. Phandalin in particular has a lot of named NPCs. Don't feel like you have to include everything. Your players may play through it again someday in the future and be surprised at various things they missed the first time around.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
EthanSental wrote:
I use the 3e DM's guide, because it's all I have and I can't afford the 5e one right now.
This particular DM knowledge source states that all rules in the game exist for a reason, and treats the act of changing or removing a rule very delicately. The message I get from it is that I am to focus on running an orderly, rules-dependent game as opposed to focusing on having a good time at the expense of a few (possibly important) rules.
I am conflicted because this is quite contrary to what the people here on the forums say. Am I supposed to be consistent and memorize every rule in order to keep the game running smoothly? Or am I supposed to mash, destroy, bend, and break rules as I see fit to keep the game running smoothly?
Don't get me wrong, I love this advice and I'm sure it will prove useful in our next session. However, I don't think you guys see where I'm coming from. To me, telling me to "go with the flow" and change the rules on the fly is like telling me to change rules on the fly in Monopoly to make sure everyone is having fun, even if I have to leave the money out altogether or something. It seems really pointless and strange to me.
If you're not going to use the rules created for Monopoly, why would you even play Monopoly? Why wouldn't you make your own game?
Does anyone understand what I'm getting at? Why are there so many rules in the game if only some of them are meant to be followed? What's the point?
I have a simple rule for 5e if I cant remeber a rule, make a stat check and move on fun and flow makes for a good game. Just take notes on rule issues and check them in a break or after the session. Just keep in mind the rules only serve the enjoyment of the game, if a rule makes things less fun or looking for rules stops the flow of fun roll and move on as most of the time players wont notice if they are having fun. Rule mastery comes with time so until you master the rules (dont let them master you) just keep things flowing.
Hello players I am the leader of the WotC Rule Enforcement Ninja Squad. Just a friendly reminder to follow all rules as written regardless of the situation or me and my squad will pay you a visit and enforce RAW. Remember we are always watching. 
Lady_Auralla wrote:
Gnollbane wrote:
Gnollbane wrote:
Gnollbane wrote:
Gnollbane wrote:
Funny thing about Monopoly. A lot of people put all money paid to public works (i.e. paid to the board and not to another player) into a pot in the middle, and anyone who lands on the "Free Parking" space takes the pot. This is not an actual rule of monopoly, and it makes the game play very differently, but many groups use this house rule anyway because they enjoy the chance of getting a random windfall in an otherwise pretty downer game. A lot of people play with a time limit, declaring the winner to be who ever has the most money at the end of that limit. This is not an actual rule of monopoly either, but many groups use it anyway because the game takes for ever otherwise, and that can kill the fun for some people. These are only a few examples of ways that, even in a game like Monopoly, fun comes first and the rules come second.
As for the 3E DMG you're using, that is a relic of an old way of thinking, and it is terrible advice for a DM. Imagine you followed that advice, learned every rule, and enforced them all with an iron fist. Now imagine no one in your group likes the game as-written, and professes that they had more fun when you used to be more forgiving with the rules. They all stop playing because they have better things to do with their lives than play a game they don't enjoy with a DM who refuses to be flexible. But hey, at least you followed the rules properly, right? Now I'm not saying this is bound to happen or anything. In general, the rules are there because they tend to create a fun experience for most groups. But it is an example of how putting a strict adherence to the rules above player enjoyment can ruin an otherwise fun experience.
Finally, to answer your question "why so many rules if they're not all meant to be followed?", you have to understand the history of D&D. It has its roots in war gaming - tactical miniatures battle games like Warhammer and hero clicks. The earliest versions of D&D were heavily drawn from a war game called Chainmail, and had a lot of rules because Chainmail had a lot of rules. Since those early editions, D&D has gone through a lot of changes, especially as the role playing genre has grown up and distinguished itself from board games. Since then, D&D has been a lot of different things to a lot of different people, and the fan base has been divided and often erupts into intense flame wars over which version of the rules they like best. 5th edition was an attempt by WotC to reunite the player base, so it's trying to be everything to everyone. Some rules exist because of tradition - there is a significant portion of the fan base who would refuse to play if certain legacy rules were not included. Some rules exist as new ideas to make the edition fresh - there is a significant portion of the fan base who would refuse to play if the edition didn't bring anything new to the table. Every single rule exists because it enhances the fun of someone, and if you are not one of those people, you can safely ignore or change any rule that makes the game less fun for you and your group, as you see fit.
I strongly recommend getting a 5E DMG as soon as you can afford it, because the 3E DMG gives awful advice, and has lead to a lot of terrible gaming experiences as a result. It's from a time when the genre was stillin it's adolescence and at the time the "simulationism" mindset was very popular - a belief that purpose of an RPG was first and foremost to create an intermally consistent world, and the rules were meant to function like the game's physics engine. Even modern similationists have since come to respect that RPGs are games, and the point of a game is to have fun, so if the world you are creating isn't fun, it needs to be changed. The 5E DMG is written from a much more mature understanding of RPGs and gives advice that helps create a much healthier game environment.
The 3e DMG is pretty godawful.
bawylie wrote:
Gnollbane wrote:
Gnollbane wrote:
Gnollbane wrote:
We answered this: "How come no official D&D rules knowledge base says all the rules are optional? Did Gary Gygax/ Wizards of the Coast intend for the rules to be changed constantly by people who didn't like them? " with direct quotes from Gygax.
I just don't get what you're looking for. I make up crap every game session. Every one. What I don't do is pore over the book looking for the precise rule. It's a waste of time and it kills the pace of play.
Whatever though. Even with direct quotes you don't seem to believe what we're saying. Adhere to all the rules if you want. In the end, that's up to each DM. But system mastery will not make you a better DM any more than memorizing wrench sizes makes you a better mechanic.
Finding a rule zero passage in any book isn't going to give you guidance, it won't set you free from the mental block you have of how a DM is supposed to run a game. The guys that can quote rule after rule off the top of their head, who cares, they have great memories and or have read the book 14 times to optimize what they want their character to do, hence the rules lawyer jokes you see in here when the rules lawyer agrees that some action they wanted to do wasn't allowed.
Quite struggling with the rules and tell a story. Learn the rules as best you can and worry more about the story. Tell a good story and players arent going to be worried about the rules as much cause their minds are in sync with your story.
Gnollbane wrote:
Gnollbane wrote:
And in the 5e DMG page 4 it says "The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game,"
Gnollbane wrote:
There you go. A quotation from every edition. Guidance provided.
Go forth now and bear witness to all you have seen. And remember - Dungeon Mastery is not mastery OF the rules, it is mastery over them.
When the players came to the game because the rules for RPG X was going to be used, then no, there is no magic rule zero - every time you ignore the rules, you actually ignore what the players came for. I've no idea why it doesn't seem ludicrous self promotion to think you are the one to decide what someone else wanted when they joined the game. Poor theory of mind, I guess.
And for players who don't care what you do, why bother faffing with rules when only you care about rolling those polyhedrons and they don't?
Rule zero is real poison in the hobby.
There's a big difference between not knowing all the rules and slowly learning them over a number of sessions, getting better at it over time Vs 'I can do whatever I want so I don't have to worry about learning the rules'
The latter isn't a solution to anything, it's just a convenient attempt at power grabbing. Why does it sound like it serves anyone but the DM in question?
Depends whether the players came to the game specifically for "The D&D 5the rules set!" or "A roleplaying experience using whatever rules set the DM is running under" Noon.
Generally, most players come under the latter. It sounds like you may have had a bad experience with a power-tripping DM, but that is not the situation here.
This thread is about someone who isn't sure about application of the rules, when and where. Strict enforcement of every rule every time, with the game having to pause every time for the DM to look it up, is far more damaging to enjoyment that asking for a Dex (Acrobatics) check when the rules say that should be a Str (Athelics) check.
And enjoyment of players and DM is what the game is about isn't it? Isn't it?
Implying that his players are only there to see the rules being correctly and completely applied, and putting down people who don't do so is not only unhelpful in this situation, it is actively detrimental to the person who is asking for help.
Oh, and since the others found the relevant qotes from the DMG way before I got here, I'll add one from page 2:
Noon wrote:
What a load, Noon.
Devils-Advocate wrote:
BRJN wrote:
Devils-Advocate wrote:
Noon wrote:
Me and my group play 3.5 exclusively, and we tend to stick closely to the rules as written. But even we have houserules. We completely ignore material spell components for example, since they are such a pain to keep having to buy. These are things my group agrees on together.
As a DM you can simply ask your group how they feel about a particular rule, and ask them if they agree with an alternate house rule instead. This is also why every player in my group receives the same amount of experience points. I explained to my players that I don't want less experienced players to be left behind, because they might have less kills, or receive less roleplaying xp. Instead, I let good roleplaying moments be a benefit to the whole group, and every kill awards xp to everyone. I don't want players to fight over who gets the killing blow on a dragon. I want them to all feel like the kill was a collective triumph of them all, and they should be rewarded as such.
Again, this is a house rule. As a DM you can choose how to hand out experience points.
Sit down with your players and talk about what rules they want to use because using those rules enhances their enjoyment, and which rules you'd like to ignore or alter in favor of making DMing more enjoyable for you.
You'll likely find that the things you don't want to be bothered with the tedium of keeping track of are things the players also don't find to be very impactful on their enjoyment of the game.
For example, in the hundreds of gamers I have had sit at my table and game with me, not a single one was bothered by my very minimal tracking of food, encumbrance limits, how much stuff can actually fit in a single backpack or belt pouch, or characters' personal hygiene practices - and no more than a few were bothered in the times that I paid much closer attention to one or more of those things because of the campaign theme (i.e. tracking food and water supplies strictly as the characters are stuck in some barren wasteland, or tracking encumbrance and container capacity very strictly when the focus of the campaign is on dungeon crawling so how much treasure can be carried out in a single trip actually matters).
Gnollbane wrote:
Our typical play sessions are 4 hrs. So we tend to gloss over a lot of minutiae - we simply declare its "covered" by spending 1 day of downtime restocking supplies. Then 10 GP per level.
I also don't track ammo or weight. Although you may still run out of ammo, it'll just be the result of a natural 1 or something on an attack. And weight won't come into play like ever.
But in a limited time slot, we prefer not to spend time on bookkeeping. If I run a marathon session of 8-12 hrs, I will use the bookkeeping stuff so I can prep the next 3 hrs.
Gnollbane wrote: