How do you/(your DMs) approach converting wealth?
My players found a hidden treasure chest (used playtest table), so they ended up with a bunch of misc gems, coin, and art.
They immediately started converting it all to gold for simplicity, but it raised certain questions:
- Should I could the treasure against encumberance, making their journey home difficult (or just give them a bag of holding early and not worry about it)
- Should I let them treat it all as gold?
- Should they have to convert coins at a bank? For a fee?
- How do you sell art and gems? Barter? Find a collector?
- Do you use multiple currencies per kingdom/region?
Just curious what other DMs are doing. Is anyone using these situations for a good role play or fun skill challenge, or are most people just not wanting to deal with the tedious math.
Thanks!
1. If that makes the game more interesting to you and your players, sure. Frequently, it doesn't. But if makes for a challenge, go for it. Imagine the characters being chased through a gorge by trolls and having to decide what to toss so they can avoid becoming dinner.
2. You can treat their gems, coins, and art objects as fungible and able to be traded easily. "I give the armorer coins, two gems, and this gold frog statue in exchange for some plate mail..."
3. I don't see any upside to playing that out. One could just say such fees are covered in downtime lifestyle costs. Only if it leads to adventure will such a scene see screentime in my game.
4. I just tell the players to tell me how they convert their goods to gold. If they find a 50-gp gem, they can say they sold it to a gnome collector for 50 gp in coins. I don't play out these sorts of transactions because they take away from time spent actually adventuring.
5. Sure, for flavor only. A gold piece is a gold piece. In this kingdom, it's a normal coin and has the symbol of an eagle on it. In this other one, it's in the shape of a d4 and is emblazoned with fire motifs.
I don't let them convert it on the spot. They have to get to civilization to convert large amounts of coin. I don't charge a fee at the bank for the conversion. The banker will also take gems, jewelry and jewels @ about 75% of face value. If the players have a particular piece they want a better price on I have them roleplay selling it or fencing it as the case may be...LOL
Redbeard2
Please Note: My answers are entirely about my own processes in my own campaigns, and in sharing them I am simply providing an option - not, even if it appears otherwise - saying that my way is how things should be done. There are no objectively wrong answers to the questions asked, just answers that work for your group and answers that don't.
1) I track encumbrance only in situations where it seems obvious (meaning no one has to do math to notice) that their might be an issues - such as if the "treasure" happens to be a large gem-encrusted golden idol, thousands of coins the party lacks containers to carry in, or the character is carrying multiple suits of armor/dozens of weapons or what have you that seem unlikely to be easily stowed on a single person.
2) I ask my players to remain mindful of what the treasure/valuables actually are, even if they are keeping a running total of the gold piece value - the next few answers should indicate why.
3) If the party has accumulated coinage that they wish to exchange to an easier to carry number of coins, they do so at a money changer for a constant fee of 10% - however, I rarely place large sums of coinage as treasure because I greatly dislike the idea of it (you find a big box full of quarters! ...wait, why is that supposed to be thrilling to me?)
4) Art and gems have a particular value, and can be "spent" just as if they were currency of equal ammount... except for one minor detail - you don't usually get change, so while you might have a fancy amulet beset with numerous jewels (worth 2,000 gold) that the armor smith will accept in trade for a suit of plate mail, you might want to ask him to throw in some shields, some weapons, and maybe another suit of armor so that you don't feel like you've just given him a 500 gold tip.
Only in absolutely "odd ball" cases do I require the players to seek out a particular collector in order to get value out of the treasures they find.
5) I use different currencies for different nations, including things like "old imperial coins" - but the difference is only in the description of the appearance of the coins. Their values are always what the players expect based on the material from which the coins are made (1 gold coin is always worth 1 gold)
seanyb47 wrote:
I'm old school, so my answers are skewed that way. You should do what is best for your game
1) I use the Encumberance Variant, because I want the PCs to have to make choices. Sometimes you leave behind the 10,000 cp, because the hassle of taking it is greater than the value. In a game I just played in, we had to leave behind hundreds of gp value of statues and giant animal pelts, because they were just too damn big.
2) The concept of "change" doesn't esist in my world, so if you pay with a gold, you overpay most of the time. However, I've also known a WoW player who automatically transfered all wealth to gold (mid-game) and never tracked it's wieght (because WoW doesn't). I still think that mentality is stupid.
3) Moneychangers provide exchange for a 3% charge (minmum 1 cp). They also provide exchange for foreign coins.
4) Merchants will normally buy these for a discount (5-20%), assuming they can afford it.
5) This is tricky, because I've tried this, and found that it's really a pain for the players if they travel a lot. I imagine all my nations printing their own coinage, and they would only accept allied coinage (which they could easily use). However, because most character sheets don't have enough space to seperate your coins, I find this isn't really worth the hassle.
Nobody else has games with Dwarven-backed currency notes instead of all coins?
EDIT: And bearer bonds? We've had bearer bonds worth 10,000 gp each as loot (many of which were burned by a dragon, thus showing the drawback of paper currency in fantasy, but still).
1-2) I don’t let them convert it until they reach a place that can convert it, like a town or merchant with enough funds. Getting the treasure home is part of the fun sometimes. Gems are often worth much more than their weight in gold. People in my world generally accept gems as currency, so, if anything, the party might want to convert their gold into gems!
Some towns have a bank or one of a chain of merchant houses that allow PCs to cash in money for “I owe you” notes they can exchange at linked houses in other towns for heavy coinage at no charge. The houses benefit because they are effectively lent money without interest. The idea comes from Spice & Wolf, a novel/manga/anime series about traveling peddlers in a fantasy world that feels a lot like Medieval Europe.
3) I haven't been charging PCs for conversion of one coin to another because I haven't viewed the coins as different currencies.
4) Sometimes art, like gems, can be used just like currency, but if you want to make it convenient, set up a known auction house, museum, or collector they can visit. An auction house could even offer you some kind of sub-game to get the most money you can out of it.
5) For years I’ve wanted to bring multiple currencies into a game or a land that uses barter and no formal coinage, but I haven't yet ironed out anything.
Do whatever you think would be fun for your players. Some people like to roleplay that stuff, others don't. Remember if your not having a good time, your players probubly arn't either.
I only use copper, silver, electrum and platinum as fluff text to describe treasure they find. For their character sheets I convert it to gold pieces and we only track gold. I still treat art, gems and other wealth awards normally. Our very first play through of LMOP we played with the coinage normally and got really, really bogged down by the variety of coins. Now that we only track gold it doesn't bog things down and honestly I haven't even thought about our change until I glanced at this thread.
Oh, and exchanges in a proper city with an appropriate merchant, they take a 10% cut, though I sometimes double or halve that amount based on RP. Other areas they must barter.
I tend to hand-wave/streamline the whole process by allowing the characters to simply convert/exhange the coins, etc. once they return to town (without any role-playing involved). 
The only time I would ever involve any role-playing elements for dealing with treasure would be if it was an integral part of the adventure or plot.
Something fun to do with ep and pp (idea from Odin Sphere): These coins are from fallen kingdoms. People accept them as pay, but no NPC converts to or gives change in ep and pp; you can only find it in dungeons and the like. Often enough, you'll find an oddly dressed merchant in a back alley or a traveling peddler doing its best to hide its tail, and they sell some wondrous things, but they only accept pay in the currency of their old country.
Players in our group normally assignn on player as the 'treasurer'. She will write down the treasure they find.
1. I leave it up to the players to track encumberance. Normally, the treasurer does rough math for weight and determines if they party can physically carry it -- typically on mounts. If not, then they'll leave heavy items behind, possibly to collect later. Items which people can use and want (armors, weapons, potions, magic, etc.) are given to a specific player to hold or keep (if they party agrees).
2. When they get to a large town, city, or settlement, then the treasure will begin selling off items and then divide up treasure to players. Trade goods are sold at value, as are gems, artwork, etc. Most of the time, players keep gems and jewlery as it is light weight for value. Weapons and armor typically at half or less value. If something is unusually rare or difficult to sell... then I'll require roleplaying to sell it and they might not get a good price.
3. Players are free to convert coins, mundane gems, jewelry, etc. or purchase equivalent value trade goods in any large town or city -- within reasonable limits. I don't bother with fees, unless I want to highlight issues, borders, travel, specific cultures, etc. If you had coins from an evil kingdom... sure... there is a fee and likely some roleplaying involved.
4. I assume players can sell such items in a large town or city given time. Unless it is extremely valuable or unusual.
5. They have them but only for flavor-text. Each is about the same rough weight or value. I'd only bring this up if the coins were from an unsual country, a clue to an assassin, or to highly travel when crossing borders, etc.
One rule of thumb is that a community has loose gold equal to about its population and only 1/5th on a single transaction. If you arrive in a village of 500 people, it has about 500 gold in loose coin and 100 gold on a single transaction -- before it needs to be roleplayed and specific. You could easily buy a single riding horse, a longbow, a suit of chainmail, etc. or sell five suits of hide armor, convert 1000sp, etc. However, you wouldn't typically find a warhorse or suit half-plate, nor sell ten vials of holy water, nor could they convert 20 platinum pieces -- without having to roleplay it (typically bartering goods for goods), waiting, send out orders, etc. Tools, vehicles, magic, spellbooks, arcane focuses, holy symbols, etc. would typically require a large city. By the time you reach large cities... it isn't worth worrying about. Players spend a few days, and you assume they can sell of things unless extremely unusual.
So, I am preping a game currently, and I will be using complicated treasure.
- I will track the emcumberance of coinage.
- I will provide loot in the form of cards, which detail a description of the item, the items weight, and an ID number, but no value, so it is easy to hand out loot. The players will have to use skills or the description to make judgements about value on the fly.
- Trade goods, objet d'art, and jems/jewlry will make up 75% of treasure, so of these will have benefits for ownership as items, as opposed to just being more encumbering money
- most people will not accept high value coinage, and their will be a surcharge for money changing.
- Each nation will have its own currancy, it will be neccissary to change money going between nations.
- There may be more than one way to profit from items.
Why go through all that hastle?
Well because there is a lot of game to be had in it. Complex treasure carries with is stories, memories, and opportunities for drama and adventure. When a PC has to choose between their the treasure from a delve, or leaving their sword behind so they can run fast enough to escape, that is a meaningful decision. When the party need to decide between selling a armoury full of weapons for a pitance to get some quick cash, transporting them to a city for a bigger pay off after several days travel, or selling them to local goblinoid/bandits/lordling for a large and quick pay out that might come back to haunt them, that is the stuff good games are made off.
Below are a couple of interesting podcasts either wholy, or partially about this subject.
Roll for Initiative podcast
Money is the Root of all Fun: Economics in Games: panel at Gen Con 2014
seanyb47 wrote:
In general...
If the players find something very valuable and very cumbersome... yes, they have to figure out a way to get the stuff back home. Even a bag of holding won't help if you're talking about a life-size statue of a Minotaur cast in gold and encrusted with gems. (I don't allow the mouth of the bag to have infinite expantion, in general, there might be specific bags for holding really big stuff.)
In my campaign, the Dwarves are the dominate race. All commerce within their area of influence has to be conducted in Dwarf minted coins. So you have to go to a money-changer to exchange any non-dwarf coins for official coin-of-the-realm. There's a fee involved.
Anything the players find that's not coin... has to be traded for coin, if that's what they want to do... Found a 500gp diamond? Off to the jeweler or pawn shop or whoever to try to sell it. Now, in my campaigns, gems are sort of the substitue bank note of the realm. 500gp in cash weighs alot more than s 500gp diamond. So if the players want to carry large sums of 'cash' with them, they probably have to convert their coins into gems. That said, it makes the whole process of gem-trading less of a process of consumer purchase and more like banking. You wouldn't be faced with the problem of taking the diamond ring that you just bought for $6,000 to another jewler an be offered $3,000 for the item because of the mark-up. You might only get 400-450gp for a gem worth 500gp from a jewler... but gems are more like money... you'd take a 500gp diamond to a jewler and could be confidant that you could walk out with 4 100gp opals and 50 gold pieces... if you had to divide a treasure. Dwarves see gems as 'cash' and are very interested in maintaining a high level of control on the pricing and trade of the commodity (much of their wealth is tied up in gems and jewlery).
Multiple currencies - yes! By far the most common and accepted form of cash is Dwarven minted. But the Human city-state of Erathia mints their own currency. So do the Half-Elves of Telemark. The High King of the Rus - the human group to the north - has recently been minting his own coins... silver pennies... and copper farthings.
One item of note - that the players have found out recently - sometimes when you find an old coin, its worth far more than it's face value or weight would indicate - there are Numismatists afterall.
Gungolphus wrote:
Once the PCs have looted the dungeon and returned to civilization the can convert treasure to gold but not before. I don’t allow any architectural reclamation (no you can’t pry up the marble floor and sell it back in town) if you choose to loot a handcrafted maple dresser or some other big ass thing you will have to figure out how to schlep it out of the dungeon.
Used Equipment, arms, and armor is sold for one half book value.
Gems Objet d'art and furniture etcetera can be sold off for a ten percent auction house fee.
Money Changers will convert any coined to any other coined for free provided you have at least one hundred gold pieces on account with them if not it’s a ten percent fee.
Magic items the party does not want can be sold for book value less 10%.
seanyb47 wrote:
Unless one of your players is an accountant, don't sweat the GP. Do what makes the game fun and flow. Under that principle, I have done this:
- Coins from Ye Olden Empire are treated as worth 10x their face value, due to rarity. (Makes it easier to imagine carrying large value amounts.)
- Treasure: A complete set of coins (cp, sp, gp, pp, &c) from each of several nations, framed and suitable for wall mounting. Value: add up the pp and add 1 - 2 for the small change plus the workmanship.
- Treasure: 1GP with the likeness of each king of the realm, every king since the nation got a mint, the set framed and suitable for display.
- The old module Keep on the Borderlands had a money-changer in the fort. Just assume he can deal with anything the PCs are likely to find, and work it out in the background.
- Adventure: escort a caravan hauling valuable merchandise back to Civilized Lands. Somehow the PCs become aware that a lot of the bulky heavy stuff is all the sp and gp they have drug out of dungeons!
- See also the "Pimp My Lair" thread from the 4e forums.
- Find a catalog and instead of handing out cash, hand out the equivalent value of useful stuff - silverware, lanterns, clothes, furniture - the PCs are likely to find useful later on.
- BBEG melted down a lot of coins and had an ingot or two hidden under his mattress. Takes Archimedes to figure out the value and purity.
Guidelines for this sort of thing should be based around fun. If your players like dickering with a merchant over selling an old idol and making a Chr check to see what they get for it, great, for for it. If they look at you like you are a substitute math teacher when you start talking about exchange rates, just skip it and tell them what the bottom line is when they get "back to town" to sell the loot and convert it into useful coinage.