Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dizease1325 Jun 27, 2015 15:58:22	I am about to start working on my first realm/world as a first time dungeon master.   I had this idea based on the movie "30 days of night" where I could have the players start in the northernmost part of this world with an ongoing vampire threat in the area and have that be the basis for the beginning of their quest if they so choose...   I'm a big fan of starting a group from level 1, especially since many of the group are brand new to the game (I've played in 3rd edition before, but this group of friends wanted to do 4th edition and my experience in 4th is minimal)   The "problem" i have is making level 1 appropriate encounters with vampired in them... from the 4e MM it shows even just the vampire spawn as level 5... and the vampire lord as level 12...   How could/would you suggest altering the vampire models to make it more level-appropriate?   I want them to feel like the area is infested with vampires and without their help may be overrun by them. Without giving them challenges they are not ready to face (unless its one they are meant to run away from)
#2 Thoughts_My_Aim Jun 27, 2015 16:47:33	There's two options here.   Basically "vampires" tend to work in two different ways in different genres. In some (e.g. Buffy the Vampire Slayer), they're basically horde enemies that get mowed down in large numbers. In others (e.g. Dracula) they are individually powerful beings. Quite often one source will mix the two (Buffy, for example, includes individually powerful vampires like the Master and speedbump vampires in most episodes). D&D *tends* to go the dracula route, and even the Vampire Spawn are quite dangerous.   So your options here are to fundamentally reinvent the D&D vampire - making vampires into low-level enemies like Zombies, or to redesign your scenario so that the (individually powerful) vampires are working primarily through level-appropriate minions.   The simplest way to achieve either effect, really, would be to start with zombies. Either reskin them as very weak vampires (reflavour their attack as a bite), or have your vampire BBEG acting primarily through zombie or skeleton minions (or human thralls).   I'd also point out that a Vampire Spawn isn't completely out of the reach of a first level party. It is a very dangerous enemy, but not an impossible one if approached cautiously. Also remember that the first few levels of 5E go past very quickly, so it won't take long at all for the players to reach a level where Spawn come within reach. If you wanted a confrontation with a MM-default Vampire, then you'd have to put it off until higher levels (but not necessarily until level 12).   Finally, I'd suggest that this kind of scenario is probably most effective if it starts slowly anyway, so it would be perfectly reasonable for the players to spend the first level or two dealing with general spooky goings-on before the full plague-o-vamps kicks off.
#3 MechaPilot Jun 27, 2015 17:05:39	A vampire spawn from the MM is a very serious threat to a first level party.  My suggestion is to play up the vamp weaknesses (whether these are the traditional ones, the ones in the DMG, ones you create, or a mix of these).   If the vamp can't enter holy ground then the party has a safe place to reatreat to, even if they need to be there overnight.   If vamps are repelled or impaired by holy symbols, that can keep them at bay and/or level the playing field.  Imagine if a vamp fought with disadvantage when faced with a holy symbol; that would be pretty huge.       Another suggestion is to play up the strength of traditional anti-vampire weapons.   Imagine if holy water did more damage, or damage over time, or both.       Another suggestion is to use the minimum possible damage for the vampire (and possibly half the usual HPs).  Say the vamp normally does 2d10+2 damage, an average of 13 (I am just pulling this out of thin air.  I haven't looked up the monster stats); make it always do 4 damage.
#4 OoftaMeg Jun 27, 2015 17:37:09	An option is to build up the threat slowly.  Have the adventurers start while it is still light out (or further south) heaing rumors and stories of the long night and a prophecy that every 50 years death comes to those in the dark.   The vampires are smart enough to know that they can't survive without their "livestock" so after decimating a town for a night they move on to the next town, slowly circling back around.   Perhaps as preparation for the event lesser undead (zombies, ghouls) are starting to get restless.   Then you can have a slow build up to the point where they start hitting emmisaries - vampire spawn - long before the real bad guys show up.   In the meantime they can be running around, forging alliances trying to prepare defences for the threat they know is coming.  Some of the villains of the story could be local leaders who are human but have been promised eternal life by the vampires if they prevent the people from getting ready to fight back.
#5 BRJN Jun 27, 2015 17:46:57	Have your Beginning Adventurers face Beginning Vampires and "vampire wannabees".    The brand-new vampires / spawn have minimum HP, never do more than a d4 of damage, don't have all the MM powers, &c.  They make tactical mistakes like chasing the PCs out of doors into sunlight (evaporating the guy in front and all the rest get into a traffic jam at the door).  Some might ask a Cleric / Paladin PC for help to "become normal again" - this is a plot hook to explain what is going on, and provide the PCs with  directions towards BBEG or his Lieutenant.   The wannabees are potential future cultists; right now they try to look like vampires, insist on neck-Biting anybody they can knock out, like to wear big floppy hats on sunny days and complain that "it's too bright out", are excessively formal and polite, speak with an obviously-affected accent, and eat their hamburgers Very Rare.  (More-committed ones also wear makeup and appear like a bad goth imitation.)  Most are really window dressing - 4e minions - that can be used as a calibration for how the real vampires are doing; if the PCs are winning there are fewer wannabees because nobody wannabees a loser, but if the vampires achieve a significant victory the wannabees pop up all over.
#6 Greenstone.Walker Jun 28, 2015 5:05:57	Dizease1325 wrote:
#7 Barky Jun 28, 2015 5:30:59	Do your players know it's a vampire game yet?   If not, don't tell them. Start at 1st level with standard 1st level encounter. Goblins have been pestering the village. The party goes through a series of adventures to uncover & root out the goblin threat. Nice, stereotypical stuff. Eventually the party finds the lair of the goblin king and his allies, the party needs to raid it. But when they show up, they find all the goblins in the lair have been gruesomely slaughtered by "insane vampires" (ghouls & wights), and the party is now on the menu. Make it a tense, "Aliens 2" style adventure where the party has to fight for their lives to escape. Then build your REAL campaign from there.   Hopefully it'll throw your players for a loop.
#8 Krusk Jun 28, 2015 10:01:47	I usually see the threat in vampire movies being that the vampire is trying to string the protagonist along without straight out killing them.    Maybe the vampire spawn is your BBEG and the players encounter him for the first time at level 3 or something. Until then, its all wolves, bat swarms, a couple of zombies here and there, traps, and creepy setting encounters. Maybe occasionally at night a couple can wake up with healing surges missing and bites on their next. that sort of thing. The real challenge to your game becomes ... (Actually, go watch ravenous, its about wendingo, but you should get a lot of good ideas)   The players wake up stranded in the frozen north. The know the sun only rises one day a month out here, and things are looking bad. They need to get to civilization soon, and worse yet. Something is following them. Sabatoging their equipment, lurking in the shadows, and laughing at their misfortune.   Day 1 - a bunch of wilderness challenges with frozen rivers, and steep cliffs to descend. Attack by a pack of wolves controlled by vampire. They seem intent on maiming as many PCs as possible, and it almost looks like they waited for an opportune time to strike. (Fighters just climbed down a cliff first? Wolves show up to eat the mages). Night 1 - Swarms of bats attack whoever is on 3rd watch. Day 2 - The party can make checks to notice they are being escorted by wolves. Right at the edge of vision in the distance. Anyone who scouts ahead, or goes off on their own is attacked. Include more environmental hazards. Night 2 - Whoever is on watch can see what looks like a humanoid figure off in the distance.  Day 3 - Check to not fall in an ice pit/crevass. At the bottom is a big pile of zombies, who begin fighting the PCs. If the PCs run away, the zombies climb out and slowly follow. If left unchecked they will catch up during the night. Night 3 - Checks to notice a mist creep into tents. Whoever has the highest Cha awakens with less healing surges than normal and a lot of blood loss. These do not come back. This happens nightly, hereafter, occasionally with a swarm of bats as well. You can also give stuff about wolves howling etc. Day 4 - Cross a flowing river. On the shore are a few polar bears, but these damn wolves have grown in numbers now and there is no chance you want to go down river some and find another way across.    continue on until they hit level 3 or so (10 encounters per level, and 3 or 4 a day tells me you can do it in 2 weeks max). When you can make it clear they are within a day or two of town. Then have the vampire attempt hypnotism on the drained PC., if it fails she awakens and he is caught, and will attempt to flee. He returns nightly to try hypnotism. The goal of hypnotism is to basically ask her to continue walking back out to the snow so he can make her his bride (or groom).    If he is caught, he can continue harassmens in town, by misting into tavern rooms, or sending agents after them. He can continue this indefinatly until destroyed. If he isn't caught, and hypnotism succeeds, the one PC simply keeps leaving town to go back into the snow. Prompting (hopefully) the others to go back for her. If she drops to 0 healing surges, she becomes an undead too, and wants to help the vampire spawn spread his gift to her friends.    *** I did'nt read vampire spawn entries and have no idea if it has these powers. But its 4e, so just pretend it does, and then just make up some reasonable DCs and numbers. Maybe it steals 1d4 healing surgest for instance.
#9 Ralif_Redhammer Jun 29, 2015 8:29:26	Oh man, the idea of poseur vampire Renfields, that’s great.   I definitely think starting at 1st level is the way to go; I’ve had bad experiences with advanced starts. I also agree that starting with some lesser undead is a good move. Maybe the vampires are always one step ahead of them, having slaked their thirsts and left the lesser undead in their wake, until the PCs are ready.   BRJN wrote:
#10 HamanKahn004 Jun 29, 2015 9:31:25	Wow, you have been given so great advice here and all was things I would have recommended.   The 28 Days Later approach with vampires, lesser type, running wild and feral is a good way to work it.  The village they are to protect becomes a massive issue.  Give them moral choices is a good way to pull them into the story.  Do they distroy a village with some innocents to stop the spread or try and save who they can?   Give them NPC's they like, and turn them.   Also, decide what kind of vampires.  30 Days of Night was a great vampire movie that gives you feral vampires like Stakeland did.  Do you want those kind of vampires or a mix with the controlled, power type; traditional Ravenloft type?  Will the mists of Ravenloft play into this?  In my campaign, vampires have devolved into the savage ones at many different power levels.  Only 2 remain that are still in control of their hunger.   Some other inspirational movies you might look at: Stakeland Vampire Hunter D (There are lots of good Vampire anime, but this one has nice darkness to it) Hellsing (Another vampire anime) Soloman Kane (Not vampires, but mood setting) Let me in (American remake of Let the Right One In) Priest   I find that movies can help create the mental mood.  I use characters from movies as templates for my NPC's.   Hope that is some help.
#11 bawylie Jun 29, 2015 9:56:19	Agree with starting earlier or further south for low levels.    Alternately, if this truly plays out over 30 days, consider narrowing the scope to fit better. Levels 8-10 might be more appropriate. Or levels 1-5 but with only 1 or possibly 2 vampires total, the remainder are familiars and thralls.
(Reply to #11) OoftaMeg	bawylie wrote:
#13 DoctorBadWolf Jun 29, 2015 22:21:32	If no one has suggested it yet: Use vampires that just outclass the group. There's nothing wrong with that. Make it about surviving, rather than defeating them, at least at first. Make the players figure out ways to trap the vampires and kill them by exploiting their weaknesses, rather than even trying to take them in a fight.
#14 Varden_Khol Jul 02, 2015 20:44:11	To address your difficulty worries. Swarms of Bats, wolves, and any of the low CR npcs (or vamp-charmed townsfolk) are all thematically appropriate enemies at level 1.
#15 Imaculata Jul 03, 2015 3:55:41	I use various kinds of demi-vampires in my campaign. For example, I have the dangerous Ashwang, which are bat-like creatures that are bread specifically to hunt actual vampires (but they attack normal people as well). Aswang are easier to fight than an actual fullblood vampire, but are more dangerous in groups. They are hairy bat-like creatures that walk on all fours, and their front legs are also their wings. They have vaguely human features, long teeth, and an extendible tongue that drains blood. They can crawl over rooftops and walls with ease.