So in a few more months 5th Edition D&D will soon be a "year old" since the core books and Starter Set were released. And still there is no sight on the horizon of any supporting source-books or splat books. WoTC still silent.
I won't lose sleep over that fact, since I realize that I can just buy the older (sometimes out of print) splat books for 4th Edition or 3rd Edition. My question to everyone here is..... which edition of the source-books should I buy? Which one is a "better fit" for 5th Edition's style and setting? I'm NOT talking about the rules or the monster stats or the crunch. I'm talking about the actual (FR) setting, the pantheons, the lore, the general layout of the planes, realms, etc.
For example, I want an Underdark source-book. I look on Amazon. I see that I have TWO choices: the Underdark splat-book from 4th Edition, and the older Underdark splat-book from 3rd Edition. Well, I'm only buying one of them that I can use as a "guide book" for my upcoming 5th Edition campaign. So which one do I buy? Please realize that the last time I actually DM'ed and seriously played D&D was back in the ancient AD&D and 2nd edition era, and all of my previous campaign books have since disappeared. Hence I'm jumping into 5th Edition without knowing all the intricate details (and the good and bad points) of 4th and 3rd edition material.
No you wouldn't want to buy PHB's, DMG's and what not. However you could check into getting the modules, aventures and perhaps even Monster Manuals (for the monster stat blocks) published for the previous editions and adapt them to 5e which is the designed intent. I'll PM you some info.
If your gonna sanbox the FR Underdark, I would buy the older 3rd edition book simply because it has much more lore, looks nicer, and has information on the drow houses that are power players down there. The 4e book isn't quite up to par, the pages suck, and the drow houses really didn't get shuffled or destroyed by the Spellplague as some other parts of the Realms. House Baenre still is at the top of the heap. And elves and drow live longer lifespans than humans, so they wouldn't have died of old age, and be able to keep up with the current timeline.
Even if a few drow houses or such changed, the new 5th edition is supposed to get back to the old ways, and I think that refers to what 2nd edition AD&D and 3.x had going on...which is why I'm recommending the 3rd edition book for you.
Pother than drow houses, I can see much more that would have changed in the aftermath of the Spellplague. The same type of creatures are still down there, illithids, beholders, mushroom thingys, a few deep gnomes. Those things, you really don't even need a sourcebook to run anyways, because they don't have a history behind them, like the drow does.
Noctaem: True, I have zero intention of buying the outdated (3e or 4e) PHB and DMG, since they are rules that are now invalidated since I am sticking with the 5th Edition core rulebooks. However, I was more interested in the source-books.... which provides information, settings, maps, encounter ideas, potential villains, history of those races, and lore of the Underdark and whatnot.
KlaudisRex wrote:
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moonbeast wrote:
I have the 3e book and bought it for the same reason you seem to want it. That said, it is one of my least favorite sourcebooks that I own and I did not get the inspiration that I wanted. I have seen the 4e book in person and agree that it looks like it is a lesser choice. There is quite a bit of information in the 3e book that you asked for, and adventuring hazards and stuff, so it should suit your needs. I just was not nearly as inspired from it as I was from many of my other 3e sourcebooks. Also, I bought the 2e sourcebook Drow of the Underdark and found it equally uninteresting. It may be the the UD is not really something I find interesting. Of all of these three options I've mentioned, I would buy the 3e book if I had to pick one. Good luck!
I was just in a very similar situation, having not DMed the realms during the 4e run, and now going back in 5e. I dusted off my 3e FR lorebooks, dug up all my pdfs (remember when the old 1e/2e stuff was free on teh wizards site?) and then went online and picked up most of the 4e FR stuff on the cheap, so I'd have spellplague info...
I have barely touched the 4e stuff. A few mentions here and there are useful, but by and by I lean on the old 3.0 CS so hard it hurts. A lot of the 2e stuff is a bit out of date, but still quite good if you understand the general spellplague. By the way, my best buy so far? Grand History of the Realms. Super useful even if just for filling in the time gap.
Though, to be honest, I have been reading all the sundering era novels and that has been more useful than the lot of the 4e stuff.
Long story short, the 3.0 CS continues to be one of the best made DnD books of all time.
Honestly, I'm going to say to go with neither book. You want lore on the Underdark, the beasties, and things like that? Use some wikis and google. It'll take a little more time, but you'll save the money. Visit the DM forum and ask for some suggestions on Underdark encounters. It'll be all the same information without a price tag.
Plus, the information you get this way is likely more up to date with the current information we have, than something that's no longer applicable.
I suggest 3.5's Lair of the Spider Queen. It's a large module with lots of content. It should be good bang for your buck.
Personally I found 4th edition books boring with no heart. Ed 3.0 and 3.5 are your best bet.
4e was somechanically different from the other editions of D&D that they often had to make major changes to the campaign worlds that won't mesh with the retro feel of 5e. Consider, for example how they talked about the "Change of the Weave" in 4e to explain why magic suddenly worked so differently in FR. 3e and older books will, in many ways, be much more adaptable (give or take the Dragonborn).
If you are looking for relatively mechanics-light source material AD&D 2e will get you the most bang for your buck. 1e tended to be less mechanically consistent and needed to insert more situational mechanics into their manuals and modules, and AD&D 3e tends to be very heavy on mechanics, introducing a lot of subraces and prestige classes per manual.
FR was basically created to be the definitive D&D setting in the late 80s and early 90s, and so 1st and 2nd edition material will be where they established the majority of data on the setting's nations, cultures, etc. FR took awhile to be ported into 3e, and in many ways they assumed people buying the 3e Forgotten Realms material had access to -, or were at least familiar with- old 2e material.
One manual to consider that is veritably mechanics's free is Elminster's Forgotten Realms, which was mostly Ed Greenwood writing little details, cultural snippets, and history about the Realms in the voice of his own D&D Avatar. If offers a lot of detail on locations, clothes, history, and factions. Heck he even talks about Faerunian lingerie at one point.
Goon-for-Hire wrote:
Edition neutral books started with the Menzoberranzan book during the 4e era. That book dealt with a lot of drow culture in that city without all the feats, spells, and the like that other 4e books contained, even though it was published with the 4e logo and cover style.
Thats the kind of book they should continue working on! edition neutral style lore books and adventurers. Murder in Baldurs Gate, Legacy of the Crystal Shard and the whole D&D Next line of adventurers also tried to follow this path, and I think the HoTDQ also was supposed to be along these lines as well. That's why they released the pdf supplemental stuff online. (Yeah, I know the Monster Manual wasn't out yet, but there was also this trending continuation of edition neutrality...and I think I heard them mention it more than once...including the fact that 5e was supposed to be the edition that could be used supplemental with all other editions?!)
I may be wrong, so please don't bark at me if I am mistaken.
But Ed Greenwood's edition neutral Forgotten Realms book really isn't something that is IMHO very useful for the table top game. There may be recipes for bread making, a lingerie section, a section on football games, what they feed thier dogs, how the Waterdeep sewers are cleaned, what type of soap they use, the bedtime stories they tell, what Uthgardt tribes eat the marrow off a vulture, ....and how the Red Wizards taylor thier robes to fit halflings...
Ok, ok, I know I'm being jerky here and none of this is really inthe book, but it all could very well be. It's not a lore book so much as its a Yelp review of the best taverns in Cormyr. Even the old school Volo guides were better than this. And although I personally love this kind of crap, it is utterly useless at my table and tells my players nothing about the ongoing problems in the Realms. I can't write a campaign arch on the best flavored bread in Chessenta.
But yeah, it's a cool book, otherwise.
@KlaudisRex
I somewhat disagree with your opinion of (Ed Greenwoods) Elminster's Forgotten Realms, as I lean towards heavy RP and lore in my campaigns (and any Players I accept into my games will have the same mentality). Sure, some of the information about lingerie that the princesses of Cormyr might wear borders on unnecessary info.... but I found a good deal of useful FR setting-related info in that book also. Prior to reading the book, I had never heard of this "Shieldmeet" thing. Although such a name for a Faerun-wide holiday sounds lame, at least Greenwood did a good job of describing it in the book. In any case, I never paid full price for such a book. I always grab them on sale somewhere.
On the second point, THANKS for your recommendation for Menzoberranzan as an edition-neutral book. Hell yeah, within an hour of reading your post about 4E Menzoberranzan, I was able to find a (brand new) copy for cheap on eBay. And the Seller also had the decency to post a screenshot of the back of the book, which I read and confirmed what you said about edition-neutrality:
No problem glad to help.
That Menzoberranzan book was one of the last books produced under the 4e banner, and one that I really like mainly because it is edition neutral. It's full of wonderfully great lore, locations in the Underdark, drow houses and politics of course, and so much more...(and I'm not just talking about what color panties drow priestess wear during Shieldmeet!). It looks totally like a 4e book judging from the outside cover and the D&D logo and everything, yet, it's a friggin edition all neutral book!! How cool is that?!
I wuld have loved more books like that. Without spells, feats, and all the things that are written exclusively for a particular edition. I was hoping more books like that would be produced....and that's what I'm hoping they do for the 5e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, if they ever decide to write one, which at this point isn't looking good, sadly. They could totally still write a 5e FRCS with an updated timeline, and still leave out all the pertinent 5e rules, spells, fears, etc that would only make it useable in a 5e game.
Whatevz. I don't know what the hell WoTC is gonna do anymore. But I know I'm not the only one who thinks edition neutral books like Menzoberranzan is something everyone can use and appriciate. But that Ed Greenwood presents The Forgotten Realms book just isn't it. You get way more bang for you buck with that Menzoberranzan book that the Ed Greenwood book does. I don't know, maybe you missed it, or maybe you don't have some of the older Forgotten Realms Campaign setting books, but they all have a short explanation on Shieldmeet and the Calendar of the Harpos.
Honestly, I think there is virtue to both very crunchy books like Menzoberranzan and fiddly detail-oriented books like Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Sure ti does not offer much in the way of clear locations, or important NPCS, but it is an amazing tool for building immersion through detail. Players love a world that exists beyond their character's immediate exerience, with festivals, coat-of-arms, odd traditions, etc.
When a player learns that all town criers in southern Anduin wear a traditional blue cap and matching pantaloons, it gives them ideas - they could use it as a disguise, or know who to look for when it comes to gossiping in the local tavern. When they know that the Sorcerer-Kings of the age before the empire wore tattoos of their family crest on their faces, a PC srocerer might choose to do the same as a way to spend some treasure, and might gain some notice from historians of Pre-Imperial history.
Telling the players that the alchemist's shop is full of strange heady smells is one thing. To tell them that the alchemist burns a traditional incense in his fireplace to kill the more unpleasat smells of the shop, and that there is a fat, lazy-looking cat asleep on the mantle-piece with a few off stains on its fur is another. The first sets a little bit of a scene. The second gives the PCs an anchor - theynow know somethign about alchemists, the peril of alchemy shops, and that this PC si like a bit of a traditionalist, and likes animals. The party druid who might have totally checked out in thsi encounter might be tempted to talk to the cat, make sure the stains are not a sign of sickness, or take an interest in the incesne as somethign he could make and trade for alchemical goods.
Little details matter, so long as you have the basc people/places/things in place.first.
One of my all-time favourite manuals for this was Sharn: City of Towers (Not FR, but a fine example). They have people/places/things down. You know where prominent temples and important attractiosn in the various neighbourhoods are. You know who is powerful, and who is dangerous. But you also know about little things, like the way nightclubs are decorated. You know that they all refer to their marketplaces as "exchanges", and you have illustrations of the local coinage and uniforms. You know little personal details about prominent figures. You have excerps of the local news rag, with a style you can imitate, and the colours of airshipmen's uniforms. You even have a musical smapling designed to evoke the region's mood and feel.
Ideally, a DM adds these in himself and makes the world his own, but a starting-off place is a wonderful thing.
If you're most familiar with AD&D/2e, why not look for the grey box from that era. If you can't get a physical box set, drivethrurpg.com has a lot of .pdf's for under $10.
Hi again all, a secondary question came to mind. I've been happy with the purchase of Menzoberranzan as recommended, and it is indeed a great little fluff-lore book (and Edition-neutral is awesome).
Does anyone know from which 3e/4e source book the "Forgtten Realms Underdark Map" comes from? It's a large fold-out insert map, with a black background. And I saw a copy posted from this link (obviously a cheap scan from the original product). Link of Map.
thanks for any answer to that
I'd go with the 3e products over 4e. That being said, 4e's DMG 2 is a wonderful collection of advice and ideas.
Also, absolutely yes, the Forgotten Realms Grey Box is a brilliant piece of work.