Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bille Sep 21, 2014 10:26:33	Left my LMOP campaign at a cliffhanger today with the level 2 fighter going in alone at the Sleeping Giant and deliberately provoking and facing off the 4 ruffians (he's that sort of player). Anyway, not sure how to handle the situation. He's basically surrounded by the four. I think they will try to grapple him and then pummel him into submission. Now, according to the rules the grapple only effects the victim's movement. However, he is fighting with a greatsword - not great in a restircted environment - so i plan to rule that if he is succesfully grappled then he has to fight at disadvantage, while those attacking him get advantage - Is this fair? Also, that if more than one person successfully grapples him, then any attampt to break the grapple is also at disadvantage. On a related note, the attackers have the ability to attack twice with their shortswords. Do they only have to give up one of these attacks to execute a grapple or both? I'm probably going to rule both isofar as the double attack represents a single action. Does this sound right? I suspect he'll wake up naked and caked in mud on the village green with a sign around his neck 'This is what happens' or some such threat.  Grapple rules always seem to be a bit of a pain in rpgs but using adv/dis like this certainly adds a bit of flexibility - it just doesn't seem right to allow a grappled character to be able to fight normally in melee  - unless I'm missing something in the rules..
#2 Taalrith Sep 21, 2014 11:01:36	I think you can get what you want with the Restrained condition.  We used it for grappling in our game yesterday and it worked fine.  It didn't break the game at all.   As far as whether it's fair or not, talk to your group about it and ask what they think.  It's more important that the people you play with can accept it.  My guess is it won't be a big deal to them either way.   As far as the dual short sword attack goes, it depends on whether the two attacks are part of one action (e.g. multiattack) or if it's a standard attack plus an extra attack.   If it's the multiattack, I'd have the enemy give it up for the grapple.   If it's a standard attack plus an extra attack, I'd use the standard attack for grapple and shiv him in the kidney with the extra attack.   You don't have to worry about subdual vs lethal damage with this edition.  You can just choose to have the enemies knock out the character when one of them reduces him to 0hp.  (I know it matters more in the fiction you're creating.)   Roy
#3 EzechielDantan Sep 21, 2014 11:07:31	You only have to use one attack to start a grapple, though you need to have at least one hand free. If you have multiple attacks you can still attack normally.   I'd resolve it like this:   1) Grapple, if succesful, prevents the character from moving.   2)So once the character is grappled you can attempt to shove the character, knocking him prone. This means that the character can not get up without breaking the grapple. So the character will both  be prone and grappled suffering both conditions. Shove also replaces an attack action, so a single enemy can attempt both in the same turn.   No movement, thus not getting up without breaking the grapple. Disadvantage on attack rolls made by the character. Advantage for his attackers if they are within 5 feet (which they will be)
#4 bille Sep 21, 2014 11:51:31	Thanks team, both excellent suggestions - perhaps two grapples from separate sources will result in restrained, or go for the shove/grapple combo if the narrative suggests this might be more dramatic (plenty of taunting going on, plus tables and chairs to aid the shove)
(Reply to #4) Nevvur	bille wrote:
#6 bille Sep 22, 2014 0:27:53	Thanks Nevvur, I had no idea I had touched on such a complex issue!
#7 iserith Sep 22, 2014 7:09:21	bille wrote:
#8 Timborama Sep 22, 2014 11:14:05	Note: What your bad guys are looking is SHOVE not Grapple. Heck, they can Shove AND Grapple and go to town, because you can't stand while grappled.   Also, I'm in the "no it doesn't work that way" camp of Multiattack and Grapple/Shove. It specifically states you have to use the Attack action, which Multiattack is not. But that's just me!
#9 bille Sep 22, 2014 13:29:09	Nice idea Iserith, but if he does lose the fight I can't wait to see what his party comrades will do when they look out of the window of the other pub and see him butt naked with a carrot stuck up his nose (I've decided this is about the worst insult that a Faerunian can suffer . . .)
(Reply to #8) EzechielDantan	Timborama wrote:
#11 Timborama Sep 24, 2014 10:53:44	EzechielDantan wrote: