Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pupoochi Nov 25, 2014 12:21:55	Hi    Am i the only one that think healer feat + healer's kit = OP! A character witha healer's kit and the feat can heal a player for 1d6+4 +1/HD with an action... I mean it's like an healing potion on steroids and it's dirt cheap, like 5gp for 10 uses. Seriously, giving that to the your players is like giving a staff of healing, for 5 gp. Any comments?
#2 Ansbach Nov 25, 2014 13:21:18	I haven't had a player try to abuse it yet so I hadn't thought about it, but yeah - at first glance it definitely seems OP.  And I'm usually one of those forum posters who gives the knee-jerking "it's broken" posters a hard time.  However, the cost isn't as simple as 5gp - you also have to factor in the opportunity cost of taking a different feat.   I think a simple and logical fix is that it takes 10 minutes to use the healing ability of the kit instead of an action; then it can't be used in combat.  To me, that is the ridiculous part - that you could do it in 6 seconds during the middle of combat.  A healer treating a sword cut would most likely be taking out his bag, examining the cut, deciding how best to heal it, taking the appropriate tools from his bag, stitching it up, applying a healing salve, carefully wrapping it, and then putting away his kit.
#3 iserith Nov 25, 2014 12:47:36	You also have to take into account that you can use this trick on each character only once between rests. So it's not like you can stand behind the fighter and spam it all combat long. Also, while you're using your healer's kit, you're not doing damage or debuffing an enemy or whatever.
#4 Coredump00 Nov 25, 2014 14:08:01	pupoochi wrote:
#5 Lindonius Nov 25, 2014 20:22:26	You can only use it once per character per short rest. Useful at low levels, not convinced about it's usefulness when you hit the teens.
#6 AaronOfBarbaria Nov 26, 2014 1:09:00	It costs a feat, probably a proficiency (i didn't check), an item you have to constantly re-stock, and is only once per character per short rest... meanwhile on the pro-side, it heals just about a single monster attack worth of hit points in many cases.   It's not something I expect I'll ever see my players actually even use because of how barely even worth it that it is, despite that it is a potent source of healing.
#7 Ashrym Nov 26, 2014 1:20:42	In a party of 4 at 20th level and given 2 rests the healer feat averages 330 hp of healing, (d6+4+20)*4*3, or the equivalent of approximately 35 cure light wounds spells cast in a first level slot.  At first level (requires variant human) it's 102 hp, or the equivalent of approximately 14 cure light wounds spells cast in a first level slot.   At 20th level, a single use of the healer feat is about 3 cure wounds spells in a first level slot.  At 1st level they are similar.  For more comparison, it out heals aura of vitality (which would take five 3rd level slots to out heal), or heal (which would also take five 6th level slots to out heal), or mass cure wounds (which would also take 5 castings in a 5th level slot to out heal the healer feat on the same party of 4 at 20th level).   Between feats and hit dice healing on short rests, other forms of healing become a back up plan.  If it wasn't for the the restriction of once per short rest each the feat would be insane, but it's still pretty crazy good for the total amount of healing it provides, even at the restricted rate.   NOTE: Casting stat for cures was assumed a +3 modifier at 1st level and a +5 modifier at 20th level, which is not guaranteed to be taken and can favor the healer feat slightly more.
#8 Timborama Nov 26, 2014 7:51:52	Healer is fine. Healer+Thief is awesome (and maybe a good reason to be one!).   All-in-all, it either allows healing characters to maximize their resources and abilities (at a cost, of course), or to allow parties without spellcasters to heal (Inspiring Leader helps, too) without a constant stream of potions. And I think it's balanced, because it's GREAT to have 1 healer in a party, 2 is overkill, and 3 is useless...
#9 Ansbach Nov 26, 2014 9:09:50	It is clearly much better than a 1st level Cure Wounds spell, and it blows away healing potions.  How much that imbalances your game is more subjective.  I think the biggest consideration is if it is allowing one player to "steal the healing spotlight" away from another, you probably need to tone it down.   That and the rather absurd premise that you can perform it in 6 seconds during combat.
#10 Timborama Nov 26, 2014 10:03:07	Also note you can contain it by limiting healing packs, in general. Well, availability, that is. This isn't Fallout where you can just lug around 50 Stimpacks to be used and abused at will! All the while, your character just buys every single Stimpack from the shopkeep because it's in the gaming code. The actual healing kit can be limited to one or two at a time. For dungeon crawls, this makes this a resource, as well! Out of dungeon crawls, well, it's still a resource, but a monetary one (which PCs stereotypically have a lot of)
#11 Sorxores Nov 26, 2014 10:28:52	The rogue can choose between +2 dex which give him +1AC, +1 to hit, +1 damage, +1 initiative +1 stealth/sleigh of hand/acrobatic, +1 Dex save The fighter could take Great weapon master giving him power attack (-5to hit +10 damage, and the possibility of an extra bonus action attack The sorcerer could take +2 Cha giving him +1 to hit with spell, +1 damage with certain spell, +1DC, +1to deception/intimidation/persuassion/performance, +1 to Cha save   or heal someone for 1d6+4+1/hd 1 per character per short rest at the cost of an action or bonus action. remember potion of healing cost 50gp, but can be use WITHOUT a feat AND, if you have teh gold) you can drink them every round without any RAW limits, so with enought money, a rogue could use the dodge action and fast hand drink a potion as a bonus action every round, then use his reaction to half the damage, making him almost impossible to kill.   an bonus action the rogue could have use to hide in order to get advantage next round an action the sorcerer could have use to cast Fireball an action the fighter could have use to attack a target with his greatsword 3 time in the round an action the cleric coul dhave healed the same target for 1d8+8(life cleric using cure wound lvl 1) or for a lot more using higher level cure wound or healing multiple player with mass cure wound etc...   Unless you are a varian human lvl 1 and you want to "abuse" the change your character and retrain the feat for soemthing else at lvl 4 I don't see any Optimizer using that feat in a real game, on paper, it might be interesting, and some people are having fun trying to abuse of it, but the abuse I saw up to now require a lot of commitment, for it (going thief rogue, instad of assassination or AT for example)   Yes at level 1, that extra 1d6+5 is very powerfull, able to bring a bleeding character back to full HP, but already at level 2, even for a well constructed wizard (14 Constitution) the 1d6+6 seem a lot less usefull. You need to realized that by AL rule, at every level a wizard with 8 Constitution (the lowest HP gain possible) gain 3HP per level, while Healer feat only increase his potency by 1HP per level, so not even able to follow the HP curve of the lowest HP possible. then think about it knwoing that most wizard will probably have 12-14 constitution so between 5 or 6HP per level.   I see Healer as a good feat to give my acolyte NPC at the church, the acolyte who didn't got his first clerical level yet. or for NPC field medic, going from one character to an other patching them up   at level 1 a goblin will do 1d6+2, so basically you can spend a feat, and an action to cancel 1 goblin attack per short rest per character?   IMO the healer feat should have been included for free with the healer kit description, you can as an action stabilize a player, or if you take 10 minute, you can heal the character for 1d6+medicine bonus (profiency+wis) HP. giving a purpose to the medecine check ability.
(Reply to #11) Ashrym	Sorxores wrote:
#13 WizardV Dec 01, 2014 20:07:04	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #13) AaronOfBarbaria	WizardV wrote:
#15 Coredump00 Dec 01, 2014 22:23:18	What makes it so good with the rogue, is it allows for decent healing, as a *bonus* action.  That can be *really* helpful....
#16 Psikerlord Dec 01, 2014 22:27:05	i dont consider it OP due to be being limited by short rests. It's good though, but it costs a feat. Fair enough imo.
#17 WizardV Dec 02, 2014 3:15:16	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #17) AaronOfBarbaria	WizardV wrote:
#19 WizardV Dec 02, 2014 16:10:54	In the case where the players are destroying every encounter prior to it's ability to drop everything they aren't fighting the high CR's as the party with my bard is. If you take so little damage a day that you have sufficient spells, you aren't fighting many encounters. Put together you are disagreeing with both of my measures of strength. If we can't agree on an objective, even qualitative, case for how to measure the strength of something, there is no way we will agree on whether something is strong and their is no basis for debate. In the case of a party that is already winning, going to winning to winning more against easy fights is not how I tend to optimize. A party optimized for such an environment is objectively less strong in my opinion, and probably stronger in your opinion for their environment.   That aside, reading it again, I don't know why but I had thought you were saying you thought the feat was weak. I believe I made a strong case, that even the most number crunchy optimizers would view this feat as compelling. You have said you think the feat is strong, we don't have enough common ground in our definitions to convince one another of anything more.
#20 Ashrym Dec 02, 2014 16:57:10	The feat is strong and pretty much a main non-magical healing option. It's not overpowered because of the rate of healing with required short rests. Only being single target can be a big drawback compared to mass healing spells if multiple targets need help fast.
#21 Rhenny Dec 02, 2014 17:34:36	It is certainly more powerful at lower levels, but in any case, I think it is a terrific feat because it becomes a huge role choice that adds flavor to the PCs.   If someone wants to roleplay a medic (whether or not he/she is a cleric), the feat allows him or her to do it.