Hi there 
We're launching a campaign where one player want to play a dex-based fighter with a 2-handed weapon (heavy for great weapon master).
Now in most terms dex is superior to str, so we were talking about allowing it by using a feat. (just for the weapon proficiency, not GWM)
That seems pretty fair to me - even a fairly high cost.
What do you guys think? Overpowered or fair enough?
I think it is a thing which messes with the "choices have consequences" balance more than the "your character is too potent compared to the challenges it should be facing" balance.
Favoring strength is meant to be higher damage potential with lesser defensive potential, and favoring dexterity is meant to be accepting lesser damage potential in turn for improved defensive potential - a feat that allows dexterity to match strength in damage potential seeks to remove the consequence of choosing to favor dexterity.
Also, the feat only serving to enable the character to combine the investment of another feat for great weapon master and their dexterity score is, from a mechanical standpoint, not actually doing enough to be worth a feat by itself - and yet adding more to what the feat does would almost certainly further remove the consequences of favoring dexterity over strength.
In summary: I think this is one of those areas where it is important to remember that just because a player might like for something to work doesn't mean that there is actually room inside the game for it to work.
I'd allow it without a feat.
There is an insane variety among weapons. You could easily create a heavy, two handed finesse weapon as a bludgeoning weight on the end of a chain. The weapon would require momentum to be dangerous, and that means keeping the weight spinning about you and directing its movements by manipulating the chain. It would basically be the same as the kung fu weapon called the meteor hammer, but with a larger and heavier weight.
If I felt the need to balance it with some other requirement, I'd take a page from the way 5e handles armor: if you don't have at least X Str, then you suffer disadvantage (in this case, it would just be with the use of the weapon though).
The Metior Hammer is a good idea. I'd require that the player take a feat to gain proficiency in it, since it's so unique, it's even outside the expertise of Martial Fighters. They'd take a feat to gain...
Metior Hammer Training
Prerequisite: Dexterity 15 or higher.
- You gain proficiency with the Metior Hammer Exotic Weapon, see below.
- While attacking with this weapon, you can circumvent the weapon's damage to instead bind up a target at a range. A target must succeed a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check or become grappled. (Escape DC = 8 + your Proficiency Bonus + your Dexterity Modifier.) You can't attack another creature with this weapon while a creature is grappled this way. A target that's more than one size category larger than this weapon's wielder can't be grappled in this way.
Metior Hammer.
1d12 Bludgeoning; Finesse, Reach, Two Handed.
I would not allow it, even with a feat.
The only thing keeping Str from being completely overshadowed by Dex is access to larger weapons and more damaging feats. You are getting rid of both of those advantages.....
The very concept of a Heavy Finesse weapon just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, on second thought, removing the Heavy Property would be far better for the sake of balance. Letting it be a Two Handed Reach Finesse Weapon should be way more than enough.
i would not allow it because a dex character gets more advantages (higher initiative/better important skillchecks, better dex saving throw) and pays with damage loss
and i play RAW ^^
if you feel a houserule will improve your game, then do it
if you fear that this character will be more powerfull with this houserule (and i agree) then dont do it =)
transcendantviewer wrote:
Illithidbix wrote:
Illithidbix wrote:
Illithidbix wrote:
Greenstone.Walker wrote:
Greenstone.Walker wrote:
Yeah half orc assasin rogue don't need to have 3d12+8d6+10+Double poison dice +dex finesse weapons, feat or not.
MechaPilot wrote:
transcendantviewer wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Same here. It just doesn't seem right to me. Plus, as others pointed out, a level-dip into Rogue could turn this ability into something pretty unbalanced. A finesse-based two handed weapon would enable them to add that extra damage die from the rogue’s special ability to certain attacks.
Coredump00 wrote:
Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
I've often thought that some pole arms (glaive/naginata, and quarterstaff, epecially) could use DEX over STR.
Love the meteor hammer, but would make it 1d10 not 1d12.
Maybe a feat to use some reach/2-handed weapons with DEX instead of STR, but they don't gain the finesse property to keep rogues from doing the illogical like using a glaive or meteor hammer for a sneak attack. IMO a sneak attack is sneaky. The weapon must be small and light.
FEAT
Two-handed Agility
- You are proficient with all two-handed pole arms, staves, and chain weapons.
- You can substitute DEX for STR to determine attack and damage bonuses with these weapons.
- You gain +1 to DEX.
Good idea?
seti wrote:
seti wrote:
Captain_Kobold wrote:
Heavy and Finesse seem mutually exclusive to me. The most I'm thinking of allowing for Dex-based melee is mithral weapons without the Heavy property gain the Finesse property, so a mithral longsword can be used for a two-handed sneak attack.
As a feat, it seems hard to balance. It's near-useless outside of certain character builds. If the feat just allows for Dex-based heavy weapons, it's not doing enough, but if it adds any more direct combat ability, it's doing too much. It needs some benefits beyond Dex-based heavy weapons, but not ones that give the character more attacks or more (direct) damage per hit.
I'd just let the character use Dex instead.
The way that I see it, you can map ability scores to different means of fighting (I would call them styles, but that term is already mechanically taken). I'd let a character that relies heavily on bluffs and deceptive movements use Cha, I'd let a character that relies on a zen-like focus to spot and exploit weaknesses to use Wis, and so on.
I think choosing a means of fighting for a character adds personality to the character. Some plays may powergame it, but that's true of any choice that gets included in the game.
MechaPilot wrote: