OK so here's the sitch, Me and 4 of my friends have just started playing D&D. We still don't have everything memorized, but i think we're good enough. The task of DMing was laid to me from the start. I still made a character and planned on using him as an NPC. I worked on an original story for about 2 weeks, and the day we were going to start, one of my friends decided he REALLY wanted to DM our game. I was kind of relieved that the responsibility of DMing was not going to be on me since i really just wanted to play anyway. I figured i would help him before we started the game and gave him a few ideas of how i was going to start the game. He liked them a lot...Maybe too much. He ended up only using the things i told him about, so i knew everything that was going to happen and how to stop it.
After we finished the session, no one really had any fun, because our new DM didnt have his heart in it. After that everyone asked me if i would DM the next session, but i have to start off where he left off the last time to contnue the story. Which is fine by me.(since it was basically my story anyway.) I have a few ways i can tweak the story to make it more interesting, but i am stuck on one big problem that was posed to me after we finished. "Why are we even together, and why should we want to help each other?"
This is my question to any DM out there who has had this problem. How do i give them a reason to want to be together, to become brothers/sisters? I want them to work together but they only seem to have animosity and distrust for each other.
To give you an idea of how the story began, we started off rolling initiative in a gladitorial fighting arena, where we fought 12 goblins and a lion. After defeating them we left the arena and were approched by a goblin butler of sorts and his guards, he told us that we had been purchased by his master for our exceptional showing in the arena. We piled into a cart and headed onto the road to meet the guy who purchased us. On the way we heard distant screams and pursuaded the guards with us to go check it out, where we found an elven woman being attacked by a troll. We killed it, took her with us and hurried out of there to the sound of war drums coming ever-closer....
Ok so pretty good start i think...The only problem is, no one likes each other. We dont have a reason to fight for each other. We dont really know each other. I know where im going to take the story next, but the only problem is, if no one wants to talk to each other the game is pretty boring. I am hoping someone can tell me ways i can have the party come together for a common cause or at least like each other a bit. And how can i get my players to be more engaged and present at the table?
Whenever I start a campaign, I like to do what's called a "session 0". This may be a literal gathering of people, it may be some discussions via email/forum but the basic idea is to give the players a general feel for what the campaign is going to be with a little background that their characters would know.
From there I get the players to tell my why they would be adventuring together. Are there familial connections? Is Bob Sue's cousin? Is Sue a close friend of Steve? Are they a group of people rallying around an organization or cause?
Sometimes the people are recent academy graduates, other times they are just strangers that are thrust together out of necessity, sometimes they grew up in the same neighborhood (I've actually run a session or two with the PCs being kids which can be fun).
While you are doing this you can also give some hints as to what is going on in your world and how the PCs will fit in.
So that's the short answer to starting the campaign.
Getting people involved can be a little more difficult because people play RPGs for different reasons. There are a ton of articles out there about this, but my list would be:
- Actors: people that really get into character. They want to know what it would be like to be Stumpy the Peg-Legged Dwarf who's sold his soul so that he can get vengeance against the villain that cost him his leg. This person is going to be motivated by conversations and role-playing. Interaction with NPCs (and the other PCs) drives this person.
- Bashers: They just want to run around and smash things. Role-playing is for wussies and any time they aren't rolling dice and bashing heads their going to be bored.
- Number Crunchers:They've come up with the ultimate build that they can't wait to release on their DM as their level 1 PC pwns a Balrog that the DM had set up as an end of story villain. They primarily care about optimizing their character.
- Tacticians: Strategy is key, whether it's manipulating NPCs or combat. They want to make optimum use of their abilities and the abilites of their group. They also love solving puzzles, the more cryptic the better.
Most people are a combination of all of the above, but it can be hard to pin down which way people lean so I try to throw a mix of social, combat and tactical situations. If people are getting bored with the role playing, I throw in a chase scene or have a brawl break out.
Be descriptive. Paint a picture for your players with your words. If you can, give your NPCs funny voices or mannerisms. When the goblin butler approached the group, how was he dressed? What were his mannerisms? A goblin dressed in fine clothes with a monacle and an upright posture while greeting the group politely as "Good Sirs" and sniffing at all the hullabaloo and blood is a lot more interesting than just another run of the mill goblin.
The same goes with fight scenes. Be descriptive of the lion pouncing, crouching down for a moment before leaping with a snarl. Reward people with inspiration if they give a good description for what their characters are doing.
Remember that you are a co-author of the story, along with your players. They should be shaping the story along with you. Their actions should make a difference and in most cases they should be allowed to go "off the rails". If you're planning and you have a note "Then the PCs will do this ... " think again of how you are planning.
When I set up campaigns, I set up organizations/groups, important figures, what the conflicts are, basics of the political environment and don't worry too much about what specific things different PCs will do or say. Determine motivation of your NPCs and monsters, don't script out their actions.
I also like to have random lists handy. Tavern and shop names, NPC names, place names. Do a quick google for random name generators, print a bunch off and have them handy.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. This is a pretty common subject, so you may also want to glance through some older posts.
Good Luck!
They are all slaves, right? They were all just purchased by the same new master? The elven woman they just saved is grateful, and rich enough to purchase them from their current owner, but requires they complete a task for her after which she agrees to set them free. Obviously, the task will take many adventures, but they will work their way through it eventually, and grow bonds in the meantime.
Simple, and, "good enough."
I would definitely assign homework for the players to come up with the backstory for their characters and how they got to end up in the gladiator arena though. I would also ask them to make some contacts, perhaps 2 friends, 2 foes, and 2 other acquaintences. This is important because you can take all these NPC ideas they give you and start brewing them together. One PC's friend, could be the enemy of another PC. And it should give you ideas of NPCs you can bring back to their attention many sessions later. It gives the PC more life to have met an old childhood friend that happens to be in the city guards, or know a merchant whose daughter had a tryst with him many years ago. It's these little things that can breathe life into a PC, and DM's should definitely encourage active players that help with the game however they can.
In most of my games, social situations that bring people together in real life, are no different than social situations that bring people together in a fantasy game. Funerals, weddings, and birthdays are always popular choices. Festivals, ceremonies, and holidays are also good. Joining the same group, whether it be a mercenary guild, a king's special guards (think musketeers or secret police like the Hawks of Mulmaster, or even the Night's Watch from Game of Thrones). This can feel restrictive at first, but you should promote your players' PCs quickly enough to give them some autonomy to direct themselves after they have a taste for what it is like at the low ranks.
I too like to do a Session 0 for any campaign we're starting. Everyone has a chance to get on the same page for the type of game we're going to play and the players have a chance to come up with a FUNCTIONAL party.
If they come up with a Drow assassin, a Dwarf Palidin, and a wood elf druid, nake THEM come up with a reason for why they're together and why they will STAY together. You've got enough to worry about being a DM. 
- Eck
All of the Session 0 stuff others have written I find realy useful from a storytelling perspective and as a GM tying people into the quest by saying "your relative / friend is in danger" is really useful.
As for having your polayers characters like each other I can see how you could help them with this by pointing out that they have shared experiences (fighting monsters, tavern brawls, drinking binges that sort of thing) during the game and letting them build those friendships.
But this is largely not your problem, if they aren't having fun because they want to play characters that hate each other then maybe point out whats happening as you see it and leave it up to them.
As a GM, I put that responsibility squarely on the players.
"You, the players, are going to tell me why your characters are working together now and why they will still be working together a year from now."
I concur with Greenstone.
Sometimes its good for the story that the GM gives a reason for the players to be together... other times its the other way around.
Tell them if they come up with a real nice and juicy reason for being together that you will reward them with some bonus experience- that usually motivates players
Somethin like experience corresponding to a normal encounter- or hard if its really good. .. or deadly if you as a GM go: My god thats brilliant!
have players do that, give inspiration as reward.
Usually I give the players a connection point, and as part of their character creation they need to come up with a connection to that point.
Current campaign it is "you are all advisors to this lord". Now one of the players is the son of a bannerman of the lord, and his sister is married to the lord. Another is a dwarf who came into view because he had good knowledge on defensive works, and he also has connections in the dwarven kingdom. My brother plays a wine-merchant with connections in the local underworld. Last there is a bard that was formally in the employ of a rival of the lord, but she fled from him after his son started harassing her.
Last campaign it was "you're all part of the same barbarian tribe". Which gave me two of the tribes warriors (barbarian and ranger), a druid that regularly talked to spirits and a druid (actually cleric) worshipping the great mother nature spirit. With a few family connections between them as well.
And there have been "all part of a clerical order" and "all part of a thieves guild" in the past.
So it's a shared burden. The players have to give their characters a connection to eachother, but a connection point is given so they're not totally in the dark.
Don't fixate too much on the details. A core assumption of the game is that the PCs work together. It's an OOC part of the social contract. There is ultimately no compelling reason that a half-dozen strangers will start hanging out together all the time and cooperating on everything, but nor is there any compelling reason that they would not. So all you have to do is accept OOC that you're going to choose cooperation over non-cooperation.
thanks, i have already started on working on a session 0 for my players. I'll let them decide a few things and ill throw in some details to help them out. Im going to have to treat our next session as a sort of flshback or "previously previously on D&D" lol. Then once its over i can move on from there. And im completely changing the story points that i gave to the guy who was going to DM, so that he is surprised by everything that happens as well. Thats alos a really good idea to have a name generator to help me out, i have a few locations named aleady but the rest of them need work, and i really suck at giving out names. I dont want "Dave" the Dwarf to be an encounter, it should sound cool lol. thanks again, and please if anyone has any more DM pointers to get my players more involved in the story and their characters, and each others characters please let me know, thanks.
Here's the only pointer: Don't permit defective adventurers as characters.
A defective adventurer is one that needs to be convinced, cajoled, or coerced into actually adventuring, or one who refuses to work with the other adventurers.
Accordingly, none of the following;
1.) Badass loners who always go their own way
2.) Mercenaries who need to get paid to do anything
3.) Cowards (and here I mean people afraid to take any risk. Shaggy & Scooby are permissible bc even though they ARE cowards, they still go do stuff)
4.) Evil, destructive bastards. You know, who just want to burn the world instead of play the game. Evil CONSTRUCTIVE bastards are ok (Vegeta, e.g. or Magus).
5.) Raised by wolves, or otherwise unattached to the world and people in it.
These, and others, are best as NPCs. Maybe farmers or villains. They're not adventurers and don't belong in your game. When you set the expectation that the group must work together (even if rivalry, or grudgingly allied, or whatever) then we overcome this problem. The group can draft their own origin story if they wish.
But lets face it, all origin stories are underwhelmingly terrible when played out in full. As flashbacks, or reference material, they're deep and cool and motivating. But really, start your adventure and your plot and story as close to its END as feasibly possible.
Work backwards if you have to. But don't start at the beginning. Instead, slowly reveal or explore origins.
bawylie wrote:
I've played a lot of Living Forgotten Realms / Adventurer Leage modules, and the understanding is "you all ARE going to work together, in order for the game to be fun". Anybody at your table who wants to argue this assertion, don't invite him to the next session.
As to WHY, well, we have some slaves whose owner likes to send other people to do "dirty work" (and maybe all work is too dirty for somebody of his station) for him...
Maybe eventually the common goal will be "gain our freedom"
Session Zero is a good suggestion. See my signature for a write-up I did on this. You can even read the transcript of the Session Zero one of my groups did together. See also the links for Character Discussion (in the Session Zero thread) where the players worked out bonds between the characters. This is also done in the game transcripts when new characters are introduced. Periodic reviews of these bonds are helpful to see how they've come up in play or whether they've changed.
I also agree with bawylie: Do not permit defective adventurers in your midst. They are symptoms of a player potentially engaging in dysfunctional play. If the badass loner, however, shows what a loner he or she is by struggling to adventure in a group in a way that everyone finds fun and contributes to an exciting, memorable story, that's not dysfunctional play.
Ok, here is my last question about how i can interest my players in the game more and be more involved. 1 player in particular finds D&D too overwhelming. He says having the choice to do or say anything he wants becomes too much for him, and he doesnt like to have the whole world at his fingertips. He wants structure, and definitive choices.
This is coming from a guy who plays games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim, so i thought D&D would be right up his alley, with the whole open world sandbox type thing, but he said even in the games he is limited to only whats actually in the game itself. He says D&D has too many options and choices..
How can i convive him to not worry so much about everything little thing he does. He's constantly looking at his character sheet, and his items list and thinking of things to do and while he does that he stays silent and doesnt enjoy the game. The last time we played he had to stop because he got such a bad headache because he was literally breaking his brain and making every little choice and thing he had to do a big deal. He says on top of all his abilities (he's lvl.2) and equipment, and stats and numbers, its too much, then you throw decision making and dialogue at him and he just breaks.
So my main question is, how can i calm him down and make him feel like their really isnt that much he has to worry about. I already told him "You think playing is hard, try frickin DMing! All the **** i gotta keep track of and making stuff up on the spot gets really tough sometimes." But me being a more creative person than him, i find that sort of stuff enjoyable.
(Also just wanting a helpful tip: How fast should we be leveling up? we spent a whole session that only had 2 battles, and we got to lvl.2 like immediatly after the 2nd fight. Should this happen so soon?)
Your last question first, because it's easier
The first couple of levels are by default into to your character and mechanics. So they go fast. However, you can set the pace of levelling to be as slow or as fast as you want.
As for getting the guy comfortable, that's trickier. Ask him how his character would feel, if he were Bob The Barbarian (or whatever his character is) ask him what Bob would do, what Bob would think. Have him put his character sheet away when you ask.
Describe the situation and if he's having problems deciding give him a couple of general options. He's used to choosing one of 2-4 options so give him some but also encourage him to come up with something else.
Things like "do you kick in the door or listen first". You normally won't need to do this for long, but it can take people a bit to get used to the game.
1) In general, have the players/PCs describe their relationship. This is what I would try at this point.
DM: You have all been together for awhile now, and have gotten to know a bit about each other. Player A, tell us one thing everyone else has learned about your PC over the past weeks, and one thing they may think is true, but don't know for sure.
Player A: Does the above...
DM: Okay, now Player B, give us the same 2 pieces of information, and in addition, one reason why you are connected to PC A. Could be an honor debt, a favor or assistance, met years ago in another place...etc.
This way even if they don't know everyone, they are all interconnected. Once everyone has done that one connection, you can go 'backwards' and have PC A expand on what Player B was saying.
IOW, give the players a chance to build and create their story and reasons for working together.
Oh.... this should *Not* be a long process. Each person takes a minute...maybe 3. You don't need long detailed stories or relationships. Just something simple. (2 years ago when travelling I was on the same ship as PC D. He seemed okay, and saved my life when we were attacked by Sauhagin one night." If Player D wants to add to that... fine. Otherwise its all you need.
As for your 'skittish' player. Let him develop a relationship with another PC. Maybe he ends up working for another PC, or he owes him his life and his method of repayment is to be an indentured servent for a year and a day. Now the Player can relax a bit, as he is (mostly) going to be following the orders of another player. I have done this, and it can be kind of fun....
As for leveling.... I don't like leveling too fast. The emphasis should be on the story, not on grinding levels or worrying about what fancy new class feature you will soon get. (I know those are not mutually exclusive, but still...) So don't sweat it.
Second question first, because it's simpler.
It's true that the first few levels go very quickly in 5E, but unless those two fights were *very* difficult, they shouldn't have gone quite that quickly.
Getting to level 2 requires 300XP (IIRC), which involves each character defeating the equivalent of 1.5 CR1, 3 CR 0.5, 6 CR 1/4 , 12 CR 1/8 or 30 CR 0 creatures.
Assuming you had 4 PCs in your party, that would involve them defeating (for example) 24 goblins over two encounters, and that's actually quite a big ask for a first level party.
Did you forget to split combat XP? If you gave quest XP as well, that would obviously make a huge difference.
As for the first question. The first thing to say is that some people just don't like RPGs, and it's possible that your player might not like the game. It's sad but it's okay. If what you say is correct, it sounds like he needs clear, concrete suggestions to work on. These can come from you or the party, but there's a big difference between being asked "what do you want to do now" and being asked "do you want to try to pick the lock or smash the door down." Some people would feel railroaded if they were given that narrow a set of options, but it sounds like this player might need it.
TestSubject35 wrote:
bawylie wrote:
As playing should be fun, it should usually be in the interest of the players to stay together as playing together is more fun than if everyone goes his own way. Coming up with an ingame reason why to do it, is something the DM can easily put into player hands. The DM already has a lot of other stuff to take care of and especially character background is something a player can easily make up himself. Does he fight for justice and that's why he goes against the evil guys? Is he a treasure hunter in hopes to find something rare when walking with a group of adventurers? Does he just want to get more experience in combat with the goal to become one of the best fighters in the world? There are many explanations, but they can usually be fit into any kind of story. The only thing the DM probably should decide is whether it should be a good-aligned or an evil-aligned group (neutral is always ok).
If you want a more story-connected reason, you can still let the player tell you what kind of reason he imagines "My father was killed and I want to get revenge" and then the DM can think how to put that into the story he has in mind like e.g. "Who of the villains the group will face killed the father?", then return some brief information the character knows at the start on what happened in regards of his father's dead like "You didn't see the face of who killed your father and don't know any name, but you know he wore a cloak with a flame symbol on it".
I found that there doesn't really need to be a reason for the group to stick together. When they are want to fight the same enemy, it automatically becomes very reasonable to work together. But of course two PCs could also just be best friends and stuff. Like that one PC is actually pretty lazy and doesn't really want to do any adventures but he is always dragged into trouble by his best friend.
ok so we played again last night. Surprisingly 2 of the 4 players were really into it. I say i was surprised because 1 of my players i was unsure he would like it, but he ended up being the best one. He was involving himself, giving vivid descriptions of his attacks and actions. He rocked! Our other player made up for his non-descriptive things with a lot of enthusiasm and throwing out suggestions to everyone, and being talkative, and taking initiative (figuratively and literally, lol)
My player who felt overwhelmed is still annoying as ever, and i think he thinks he's just "too cool" to play D&D (although he is already obssesed with MTG, videogames, Heroclix, and Comic books.) So why he thinks D&D is beneath him i have no clue. But he did give it a shot, even though he sat probably like 4 ft away from the table, and barely particapated. ( I had to cajole him into being part of things, but he didnt seem to mind when I focused on just him to see what his character was doing.)
Our last player was just shitty all night. Sitting there pouting and acting bored when it was someone elses turn, then when it was his turn he'd just say "i do nothing" or "I attack...i miss...whatever" he really sucked. This is the guy who wanted to DM, and i think he was kinda pissed that everyone was liking the story i came up with, and after his session everyone wanted to quit on the spot.
I tried to give small incentive for playing well, such as finding magical items, either from the book or that i completely made up. I thought i could perk up our crappy player by giving his character some new/better equipment, and when i did he refused them and said "i like what i have." Everyone else got some things as well as i made it my hope to give everyone something new to have in their equipment the first run through. Our archer got some fancy new arrows, our healer got health potions to give out or keep for herself, our warlock seemed interested in gold, so he got some gold and a shiny magical ruby.
It kinda sucks that i have 2 players that really want to play and seem to be enjoying themselves, with 1 player who doesnt seem to want to be there at all, and another who couldnt care less about whats happening and just wants to take a back seat to everything.
I also found a cool way to throw them all together to have the same goal. I sort of stole it from FFXIII where they all kinda got a focus to complete and were branded by a different ancient elemental god. (they dont know this yet, but i drew out some symbols and made them randomly pick which ones they wanted to be burned into their flesh. (they dont know what they mean just yet, but have already seen (in a vision) the destruction of their beloved homelands fall beneath these ancient gods. And with their symbols, each one will be able to defeat a different god easier than the rest. Also since they are elemental symbols i will be giving them a small trial each within a dream to probably fight an elemental creature and gain a power from it. (ive already picked out a cantrip to give to each player according to their respective symbols) so nothing too much but a little flavor to help peak their interest. Theyve already seen an NPC die that bore a mark just like theirs, so theyre very interested in getting rid of these things or trying to understand them....
Let me know what you guys think, and if their is any hope for my players to come around. Sorry for this extremely long post. I got a little excited that at least half of my players enjoyed my story lol.
1.) Excellent work on having a good time. That's the whole point!
1a) Don't worry too much about your killjoy; he's probably butthurt about being fired, which is understandable, and he should get over it and have fun eventually.
1b) Some players/people are just bad fits for the game. I suggest asking that player whether or not they're interested in continuing, in a very nice manner: "I noticed you don't seem to be enjoying yourself at the game so much. That's okay, it's not for everyone. Would you prefer not to be invited next time we do this?"
2.) First couple levels are fast. Next levels slow down. Then pick up again at higher level. The pacing is such that with regular weekly play, the adventurers become very high level within 10-14 months.
3.) Continue to reward the behaviors you wish to see more of; do not reward or punish behaviors you don't want any more of. Rewards come in varied forms. XP, inspiration, down time, treasure, items, titles, allies, intelligence, and PRAISE.
3a) Praise is your 'cheapest' and most effective reward. Learn to employ it with prejudice & variety. Smile at a good bit of play, make eye contact with someone earnestly roleplaying their heart out, evince an impressed reaction to a good idea, applaud victory, commiserate over loss. We often declare "King of the Ring" after a fight and vote on an MVP post-session (who is awarded extra XP).
One of the best things the Food Network ever did was to treat the cooking shows as a sport. Looking at Iron Chef, Top Chef, Cutthroat Kitchen, Chopped, etc. From camera angles to commentary to drama of competition: they learned that it's engrossing to treat these events as games and sports. Incorporate this into your DM-ing. Yes portray the world faithfully and mind the tone of the campaign and all that, but also don't lose sight of the fact that this is a game, and people respond to a variety of incentives and experiences.
Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
bawylie wrote:
bawylie wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Here is a truth about DMing-- you will lose players. You will encounter players who simply can't or won't "buy into" your game or simply don't fit in. Don't sweat it.
As DMs it is often drilled into us that having a dissatisfied player is bad and we must do all in our power to appease that player. While a good DM will attempt to address a disgruntled player's concerns, all too often, DMs go way overboard in trying to keep the "problem" player from leaving. In so doing they change the campaign in ways that reduce the enjoyment for the other (3 or more) players who were happy with the game as it was.
I say, "DM to those who will play." If you have one guy out of 4 - 8 who is down on your game, there is no shame in letting him go. Focus on those who like your game, not those that don't. To be sure, try to be accomodating, but also know when to cut your losses. There are plenty of other games out there that a dissatisfied player can participate in.
Remember this: There are tons of Sci-fi fans out there, but not all such fans like Star Wars or Star Trek. If George Lucas and Gene Roddenberry can't please every potential fan, what makes you think you can? All DMs lose players. Good DMs don't take it personal. 
Kishri wrote:
TestSubject35 wrote:
Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
bawylie wrote:
Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
After we finished the session, no one really had any fun, because our new DM didnt have his heart in it.
Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
Players that are completely uninterested are never the problem. Talk with them and get them to leave if they don't enjoy it anyway. It's more problematic when you have a player that either does nothing other than saying "I attack x" during combat or only does things that ruins it for other players, but whenever you tell them that they don't need to play if they aren't interested, nobody is forcing them, they are always like "Noooo, I want to continue playing."
I just don't have the courage to kick anyone out unless he says he isn't enjoying it and wants to leave.
Here's what I'd do considering your experiences so far.
Scrap what's happened and start fresh. You need to get the players on the same page and you're headed for complete breakdown if you continue. Talk about expectations and what you as the DM want and what each of the players is looking for. Come to some sort of consensus, as this is a game that needs cooperation on all fronts. That's the contract you sign when you come to play it. If someone doesn't sign, then they can't play.
Next set up what the adventure will be about. You're the DM and the one taking the load, so you get to pick how this thing starts and ends. With the concept in mind, the players now can make PCs together that are invested in the story and each other. Again, that's the price of playing. This game hardly works with experienced players and DMs as, "everyone has their own goals and we'll see how those play out."
Now you can start play with a cohesive story and group of players (and characters) who actually want to be there.