Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 WanderingBard May 03, 2015 13:22:28	I'm having a lot of trouble creating strategic battles. Even when I think I've made one, it devolves into a hp war of attrition between the mobs and the players which my player really hate. They requested strategy, and althouhg I managed to pull it off in some occasions I dont think I've had any battle leave a memorable mark which really pains me as a DM. My last session as DM for this cycle is coming soon and I can't seem to think of a strategic battle. Any help would be great, and any tips that I can apply in the future and now will be amazing. For any specific suggestions on a battle for the final session here are the details. -They are in a alternate "death" dimension -They have numerous injured npc allies -They managed to beat the Angel of Death (but she is going to reform for the final fight because there is still ALOT of death energy) She is very weak right now though, so she has weaker statistics then a Deva -The little girl the angel was possesing can also be a hostage -There is one powerful paladin npc who can serve as a buffer or some ceremony type event (i.e trying to create an emergency exit in the dimension as the angel tries to trap them and kill them in it) I was thinking of something along the lines of using magical darkness as a way to have some strategy, but not exactly sure how without it being oppressive and just a boring disadvantage on hit effect that dosent really affect their playstyle or totally hampering their ability to fight effectively. Can you also suggest strategies the players can use to counter strategically placed disadvantages in fights? Because I don't want the solutions to be unintuitive. If it is, how would you hint it to the players w/o being painfully obvious? Any help will be great!
#2 BRJN May 03, 2015 16:08:18	- Having the Rogue run over (DIsengage action, from L2 Cunning Action feature), grab the little girl / hostage (Grapple), and run back to PC allies could weaken the Angel of Death to make it more beatable. - If the Paladin heals the injured (Lay on Hands) the amount of Death energy available drops, also weakening the Angel of Death - Provide some terrain.  My DM hates it when there is a bottleneck on the map because I plant my Paladin in it and keep the rest of the group behind me; nobody but me can be hurt.  If there are two ways to get from here to there, the PCs have more room to do cool stuff. - Ask the PCs what spells they have with more features than just +dmg.  For instance, Shatter aimed at a blocked planar gate could clear the blockage and provide an escape path. - For that matter, Shatter aimed at thin ice followed by Mending or Make Whole aimed at the same spot can leave an enemy trapped, drowning, and freezing to death all at the same time. - Does using Radiant energy / attacks do more to the Angel of Death than using other stuff?  If so, your NPC Paladin can cripple the Angel (at the cost of his own life of course) via a Smite. - Think up a way to get the information on the Angel's weaknesses into the PCs' hands, then let them brainstorm what to do with it.  It is not your job as DM to come up with the ultimate solutions. - Look through the "Combat" and "Playing the Game" chapters of PH and daydream ways to use the different Actions, not just "I attack the Angel of Death".  Let Swashbuckling be a really good decision ! - During one fight, my DM noticed me looking through my typed-up list of class features and said aloud, "Uh-oh, he's looking through his Bag of Tricks".  Encourage your players to do likewise. - Reward player creativity !  If they totally mess up your plans, tell them so - either over the table or in-character "The Angel storms through the doorway, sees you holding the 'Genie Bottle' of its essense, and howls in rage and panic."   Most importantly, give the PCs some way(s) to cripple their foes, and some time to think up and deploy counter-measures.  "I love it when a plan comes together" works in D&D, too.
(Reply to #2) WanderingBard	BRJN wrote:
#4 iserith May 03, 2015 18:27:24	Do you use a map/grid with minis (tableau vivant) or theater of the mind?   What level are the PCs?   What are the PCs' goals?
(Reply to #4) WanderingBard	iserith wrote:
#6 transcendantviewer May 03, 2015 19:06:20	This sounds like a really cool encounter, but, it also seems like it can go south remarkably quickly. If there's a Cleric in the party, this should be a cool way for him to feel really badass. If there isn't, don't hand out too many zombies/give them too much healing to the angel.
#7 Greenstone.Walker May 03, 2015 19:22:10	Give them choices with real consequences.   They have three paths but can only block two themselves. Do they get an NPC to block the path, knowing that the NPC will probably die? The players can spend time fighting the bad guys or casting spells to allow the wounded NPCs to escape, but not both. The players can't heal all of the NPCs; they have to choose who lives and who dies. This little girl that the angel is posessing - what happens if she is killed? Perhaps the PCs have to choose her life over a number of other lives?   Give them interesting terrain. This gives them choices and consequences.   Chokepoints have already been mentioned. Give the tanky fighters a chance to shine.   Things to hide behind, things for the bad guys to hide behind. Do they spend a round doing nothing but move, to get somewhere the bad guy doesn't have cover, or do they just fire,hoping to overcome the cover benefits?   Nasty terrain. Perhaps there is a river of acid. Do the PCs spend a lot casting a spell that lets them resist acid, in return for being able to move through the river?   Maybe some of the terrain moves?    FInally, the consequences should be relatively equal. DOn't give them a good choice and a bad choice - give them two good choices or two bad choices. Or, better still, three bad choices.
(Reply to #6) WanderingBard	transcendantviewer wrote:
#9 Barky May 03, 2015 19:45:32	WanderingBard wrote:
(Reply to #9) WanderingBard	Barky wrote:
#11 Varden_Khol May 03, 2015 21:54:06	You've lamented a few times that the PCs are focusing on reducing the enemy's HP as fast as possible. What I try to do is come up with a scenario where doing exactly that isn't the victory conditon. First you need some motivations. The Angel of Death (AoD) wants to open a portal and escape through it, trapping the PCs. The PCs want to prevent this while also trying to escape. That kind of thing. Then create some obstacles that get in the way of those goals. The AoD's portal will take 6 rounds to open. The PCs will be held at bay by the zombies. The portal is powered by a fragile construction of runes. Etc.   Make sure you telegraph your options to your PCs. Big NPC dude can point out to them that the rune circle off to one side is powering and focusing the portal. Meanwhile, the AoD's chanting is picking up, the ritual is nearing completion. Do they harrass the AoD to slow the countdown, or target the runes to blow up the portal for good? How do they get past the Zombies without feeding more death energy to the AoD? Can they rearrange the runes to send the AoD to a safe little pocket dimension?   With your zombie idea, I would ensure that the PCs witness both outcomes. Their souls being cleansed by radiant energy and their wounded souls being absorbed by the AoD. You don't want them to kill their first Zombie, have it power up the bigger baddie, and then they lose hope. Worse yet, that they feel punished for doing the heroic thing.   TL;DR If the goal of an encounter is to reduce the enemy to 0hp, then that's what the PCs will do. Turn that into a secondary objective, or even make it impossible without meeting some other requirements.   Hope some of this is helpful.
#12 WanderingBard May 04, 2015 0:00:13	Here is the First Draft of the Final Fight, w/o the monster statistics yet though. The Gate of Hades   Player Goal: Escape the Dimension of Death, and prevent the Angel of Death from taking the Goddess of Death’s Prison Stone out of the dimension. Monster’s Goal: Trap the players in the dimension and destroy it, and escape with the Prison Stone If the players manage to escape the Death Dimension they survive, if they prevent the Angel from escaping they manage to stop the resurrection of the Goddess of Death Miasma. Obstacles: 1. The Angel of Death at the start of the encounter will close off the portal that the players used to access the dimension. 2. The Angel of Death will “re-animate” all the dead soldiers that helped the players. The “zombies” will be weak individually but be very tenacious and accurate in groups. They will deal “poison” damage through their miasma if not dealt with. The soldier’s goal is to prevent the players from following the Angel of Death into the Temple where the 2nd exit is. They have 3 turns to get past and whenever a zombie goes down it will try to do a “Death grapple” to prevent the PCs from getting past. Every turn after 3 turns detracts from the time they have to stop the Angel of Death from completing the Portal Opening Ceremony 3. On the way to the Ceremony location, the dimension will start being destroyed around them so players must make strength save when building collapses around them, swing across chasms. Note: (Sounds intense but I feel like execution will be lame, any suggestions? Is this just good narrating?) 4. Upon entering Ceremony ground, The Angel of Death will be chanting a spell on a gigantic runic circle that has a cross going through it and a small platform in the middle, with the Angel of Death in the middle. In between the entire platform is made out of translucent glass and below is a vortex of death energy. This platform will slowly be destroyed as the ritual continues, the players have 8 turns to reconfigure the runes to have the portal lead to the Life Domain and or stop the Angel of Death. The platform consists of 4 sections, and each section that will fall will begin to visibly crack and be destroyed on the 2nd turn after the cracks appear. Anyone on the platform will fall into the Death Vortex and have their soul trapped by the Angel of Death. 5. The Runic Circle consists of Runes of Wizard Knowledge that only an Arcane magic user can utilize, a Runes of Abyss that only Warlocks can utilize, Runes of the Divine that only a Paladin or Cleric can utilize, and Runes of Ancients that only one knowing Draconic can read, and is a mathematical equation. Each rune can only be accessed while the Angel of Death is chanting that particular part, which means players have 2 turns to re-arrange the runes. 6. When the players enter the ritual zone the Angel of Death will summon the souls of the soldiers in a Miasma-undead form. They will operate similar to zombies like before but stronger and less numerous, but when they are killed by non-radiant damage, heals the Angel of Death for all the damage they had taken. If killed by radiant damage, any excess damage will carry over and hurt the Angel of Death. These zombies also get bonus on hit chance if they are within 30 ft of the Angel of Death and advantage on constitution throws, incentivizing the players to stay away from the Angel of Death when dealing with them. They will attempt to break the concentration of the players applying the runes as well as attack anyone close to the Angel of Death. However, they are slow. New ones are summoned every time a platform falls. If a player fell into the vortex they will also be summoned as a Stronger Zombie if they fail a Wisdom Saving Throw to prevent being brought back from the dead. 7. The Angel of Death will have a huge lump of hp, that only grows as zombies are killed w/o radiant damage, she deal moderate damage to anyone within range with ranged necrotic attacks, and will heal the damage dealt, she also has a 10ft necrotic aura that requires a con save or receive necrotic damage. However, any healing the players do will also damage the Angel so long as they are actually healing lost hitpoints. This is because healing drains from the Death Energy fueling her form. Clues When entering the room, the players will be informed by the Fallen Paladin that the Angel of Death has just started, about halfway, or nearly finished with her portal ritual. Each one takes 1 turn off the timer. To reach the areas that have already broken the players must walk around the outer ring that dosent break, in a acrobatics or athletics check to the point with the runes, and make a higher Arcana check, that gets easier every time. The NPC Cleric will note that there is a huge ball of necrotic energy under the platform and falling in would mean certain death. The Fallen Paladin will tell the players that while the ritual is going on that he can interfere with the Necrotic Energy to enough of a degree to allow the players to reconfigure the runes for the portal to the Death Domain that the Angel of Death is trying to open. He tells the players that if they slightly change the rune structure to the opposite, it should open a portal to the plane of life which should severely weaken the Angel of Death so that she could be finished off by a mortal. When the zombies are summoned, the Angel of Death will declare, “How can you mere mortals defeat me? My very essence is fueled by carnage, death is a blessing to me! Go on kill my minions! You are merely damning them to an eternity of torment!” The Fallen Paladin slays an approaching zombie and watches his screaming soul fly back to the Angel of Death. The Paladin notes that “Their souls are trapped and tormented due to her death magic, if we kill them now we’ll ust empower her with their dying souls even more, however, we can purge their souls still if we finish them off with the holy power of Fia.” He then smites one that leaps at him, and the PCs watch as the darkness burns away and the mans spirit flies into the sky free, ripping a hole in the dome of necrotic energy above, and causing the Angel to roar in rage. “How dare you mere mortals steal the dead from me! You will pay with your lives!” Conclusion: 1. The players succeed in manipulating all the runes and causes the portal to burst with light knocking the Angel onto the ground. The domain of lifes energies pour through negating the death energy in the dimension. The Angel of Death is severely weakened at this moment, and the Fallen Paladin tells the players that he will sacrifice himself to end her with a smite infused with his entire life force. He impales her and the players are thrown out of the dimension in an explosion and into a dimension somewhere in between the material plane, where they meet the spirit of the paladin, who gives them a gift before departing and returning them to the material plane. 2. The players fail to manipulate the runes, but manage to finish off the Angel of Death’s life bar. The Angel of Death begins to reform, and the Paladin informs them that they have to finish her off with a very powerful holy attack before she can reform, and that would require multiple life forces who can wield holy power. The party NPC cleric (The one who has to survive if they want to get paid), the Party Paladin (PC), and the Fallen Paladin can do it. Two people have to sacrifice themselves. They combine their holy might and destroy the Fallen Angel and the Death Goddesses Prison Stone, the dimension collapses and due to the burst of holy energy negating the death energy, opens a wormhole into the material realm. 3. Players fail to manipulate the runes in time and finish off the Angel of Death. They all die. Death Goddess is revived in a millennia.
#13 Imaculata May 04, 2015 4:18:47	I can give a couple of pointers regarding building a cool encounter, from my own experience:   Create a battle location that has plenty of height differences. Then place ranged enemies on higher ground. Place obstacles that can provide cover for enemies and players alike. Place difficult terrain, that slows characters down if they move across, or requires a skill check (climb, jump, balance). Place hazards that can deal damage, or kill the players (Lava, machinery, a river, pools of acid). Place exploding barrels, or any object that could be used as an alternate means of taking down an enemy. Place moving platforms. For example: A moving ship, an elevator, a crane, a mine cart. Place an ambient magical effect that reduces the effectiveness of certain abilities. Create diverse combinations of enemies, such as a combination of spellcasters and melee attackers. Be creative with spells. Try and use spells in ways that players don't often think of, and use less popular spells. Make line of sight and stealth an important factor in the battle. Multiple objectives. Do they need to only defeat the big bad guy, or do they also need to prevent the villains from setting fire to the gunpowder room?   For example, in last night's battle I had an army of mages with trained guard dogs, that could trip opponents, and cause rabies with their bite attacks. The mages alone would have been rather weak, but with proper support they are pretty deadly. Plus the dogs were able to sniff out any invisible players by using their scent ability. Meanwhile the players were trying to get to the head wizard inside an old shipyard, who could dimension-door to safety if they allowed him to do so, while his minions would fight to the death. His minions might have also tried to blow up the ship that they had stolen, which could potentially have set fire to the entire city. And capturing the ship was one of the secondary objectives.   So there you have all the ingredients for a cool battle. Diverse enemies, multiple objectives, height differences, cover, stealth, spells and special abilities.
(Reply to #13) WanderingBard	Imaculata wrote:
#15 bawylie May 04, 2015 11:43:38	Yeah. Back to basics.  You've identified goals, hopefully have an open-ended dramatic question. You've got obstacles to place between players and goals.    Good.    Now you need to draw a play space, a battlefield, and put some of the stuff in there that the NPCs will use to their advantage. Once that's done, take a moment and think about your party.    How do They want the fight to go? How will they leverage their might? What's their most likely course of action?   Once you have that, modify your encounter so that their most likely course of action is difficult to achieve or sub-optimal in what it Can achieve.    In other words, push them off their A-game and onto their plan B. Stop there. That's tactical enough.
#16 Barky May 04, 2015 20:31:40	Don't forget that, in all likelihood, your monsters are all going to be encountered on their home turf! Give them home-field advantage. They've probably had all sorts of time to build traps and stockpile all kinds of things to supplement their attacks or bolster their defenses or enable their escape.
#17 Imaculata May 05, 2015 2:40:08	Yes, the monsters will probably be well prepared for an attack. So try and come up with ways in which the players could possibly trivialize this encounter, and put in measures against that. What I usually try to do is find the right balance between an encounter that presents plenty of tactical options (multiple roads and objectives), while eliminating options that would cheese the encounter.   A perfect example of this is the guarddogs in my campaign, that could smell invisible players. I knew that they might try an invisiblity spell, so my monsters needed to be prepared for such an event. Other things you can do, is place magical symbols on the most likely paths (Symbol of Pain is always fun). And you might want to make sure your monsters have the option to dispel any devastating spell effects that the players may cast. Traps are also a good idea, although I prefer to use traps that don't instantly kill the players.
(Reply to #17) WanderingBard	Imaculata wrote: