Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dr.SStrange Jul 07, 2014 17:23:11	Hello, all! I'm a fairly new DM, and I'd like some help regarding how I should have handelled a situation I had between my players.   We are a new group, but are all friends and have played a bit of 3.5 in the past, and since there was a new edition coming out we decided to try it. We got the starter set, and for our first session had 6 players. I allowed one of the players to build his own PC while we got everything ready.   Over the course of the game he was surprisingly more powerful than the other PC's and upon further investigation he had improperly made his character; we suspect he forged the rolls for his ability scores (which wouldn't be the first time, he's tried before). They were along the lines of 18, 17, 12, 15, 17, 13, in addition to other things, such as assigning himself his own equipment wihtout asking me, nor consulting the backgrounds section of basic D&D.   After the end of the first session a couple of players came to me and told me they didn't like how things went because he was too powerful compared to the other PC's. I told them that I didn't want to upset him, and that it wasn't as big of a deal as they made it out to be. I said that i would try to deal with it somehow.   Now's when the true problem starts to arise: when we got together the next day to reprise our roles one of my players said that they could no longer attend for the rest of this campaign; I thought that this was exactly what we needed. I spoke with the "custom-PC, overpowered" player in front of everyone and told him that he could fill the role of the now-missing wizard PC instead of playing his character. I justified this with the fact that we'd only finished one session, and that the wizard had a backstory which he could follow, making this character more desirable. I also mentioned the fact that the campaign is labelled as being for 4-5 players, so the loss of one of the 6 PC's would be optimal. He became extremely offended that I would even offer this, but this solution was what I thought would please the most players. He said that he didn't want to play a wizard, and that there was no possible way he could have fun if he filled that role.   One of the solutions I thought of was that we could let him play his PC, but then the other players would be happy, and we would miss out on the backstory of the missing wizard PC. At this point there was a somewhat heated dispute between him and the two players who wanted his PC out. I tried to reason with the player in question, but he wouldn't listen. In the end one of my players gave him the rogue which they were playing, and took the role of the wizard instead.    No one seemed happy: Someone lost the rogue they very much wanted to play, the player in question lost their character, and the whole thing left a bad taste in everyones mouth.   How should I have handeled this situation? We are all close friends so I don't want anyone to be uhappy. Sorry for the wall of text, but I wanted to explain thoroughly. Thanks to anyone who answers, too! As a new DM all advice is welcome, even if it's "Your decision was terrible!"   Thanks again!
#2 iserith Jul 07, 2014 18:27:39	This is a player issue, not a game issue obviously, so I think the best way to have dealt with it was to directly, honestly, and politely tell the player in question how everyone felt about his character in a non-confrontational way. Then ask for his help in coming up with a solution that would satisfy everyone. Being this honest and direct with someone can be difficult at times, but it really is the best policy.   I recommend taking a moment to discuss the game civilly as a group and decide how to move forward amicably. It is for reasons like this I recommend a Session Zero be held before actual play begins, so as to assess everyone's expectations for the game and to get on the same page with each other. This may include character creation which will alleviate any concerns about fudging ability score rolls and sorting out equipment and choosing backgrounds that work with the other PCs and the campaign being played. It's not to late to have such a discussion now and "reset" the game. Just make sure that's something everyone would be willing to do with the goal of making the game better for all.   Consider reading some of the links in my signature for additional DMing advice. Also, "11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer" might be one you share with the group as a whole when you next meet.
(Reply to #2) Dr.SStrange	iserith wrote:
#4 Erifnogard Jul 07, 2014 21:08:12	Honestly, it sounds like the biggest mistake was in not having everyone make characters together with their rolls witnessed.  From your description its entirely possible that the first player could have legitimately rolled those numbers and then everyone is accusing him of cheating.  If he really legitimately rolled those numbers it's perfectly reasonable he would be upset. And yes, it's entirely possible also that he cheated the rolls but having allowed him to roll with no witnesses its bad form to complain about them.   The second problem is that the DM should at least cursorily look over characters that they didn't witness the creation of to see if there are problems (such as the equipment/background stuff you mentioned) and correct that before starting the game.   The third problem I see is that almost no player is going to be ok with being told "We think you cheated so you have to play this other guy's character instead."    A final observation:  if your players aren't ok with some characters ending up with more powerful stats then random roll attribute generation may not be the best option for your group.  Either point buy or standard array stats might work better.   All of this is just my opinion of course and your mileage may vary.
#5 OrwellianHaggis Jul 08, 2014 3:18:21	I agree with Iserith and Erifnogard.   Roll stats with witnesses in future, or use point buy. And always be frank and honest, though perhaps away from other players so as not to embarrass the guy (good for those occasions where he isn't aware of his faux pas). If the player can't handle a frank discussion, maybe you'd be better finding another player.
#6 alienux Jul 08, 2014 7:55:27	I always make sure players roll their stats with the group. It just keeps things on the up-and-up from the beginning, at least in character creation. Then, if someone genuinely does get a super powerful character by some amazingly lucky rolls, the rest of the group is more likely to not be as bothered by it because they know it was legitimate. Of course it helps if a person who rolls so well isn't obnoxious and has a little humility, but you can't control that.
#7 E-Tallitnics Jul 08, 2014 23:35:35	There's some great advice being give here. To add mine I'd highly recommend that you folks scrape what little you've done and have a game zero where everyone rolls up their own character together.    There's two very good reasons for this: Party Unity. When the group rolls their characters together you get a party synergy that you don't, usually, get when characters are created in a vacuum. Everyone knows what strengths and weaknesses each other has. That includes stats, but also skills, equipment, spells, tools, literally the whole enchilada! It also makes each player develop a great backstory for their character (borrow and enhance on the provided Pre-Generated ones). System Knowledge. By "rolling your own" each player will gain detailed knowledge and understanding of how the game mechanics work, and work together. Therefore learning how the party can and will work together, which feeds back into point #1. Make sure to let that 6th player who left know you're starting over. Hopefully they'll rejoin!
#8 Archon007 Jul 09, 2014 12:58:42	I agree with everything saud so far. My only addition is the premade characters are made with the default attribute array so to keep the balance from the start he should never been allowed to roll.    The he other option which I used was to allow our 6th player to play the captured NPC you find early on.
#9 Lawngnome4hire Jul 10, 2014 1:27:02	If this guy has a history of fudging rolls I'd definately want to witness his stat rolls or use point buy to keep everything on the level.  Honestly if one of my players had a history of fudging rolls I'd kick them to the curb and find someone who doesn't cheat to replace them, but I can understand that may be difficult if they are a good friend.  At the very least I'd have a very blunt, but private conversation with them and make it abundantly clear that cheating won't be tolerated, and that if they want to play with the group they need to make a character that is more in line with the rest of the group.  RPGs are a cooperative, group activity, if someone doesn't want to play along with the rest of the group it's going to ruin it for everyone.  Better to spoil one persons fun by giving them a stern talking to or kicking them to the curb than letting it ruin it for everyone.