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| #1intentlySep 26, 2014 19:07:47 | I don't get how hiding works. The PHB on page 177 says "you can't hide from a creature that can see you". Which of these options is true? (Perhaps more than one.)
1. You can't enter a hidden state while a creature has line-of-sight to you 2. If you're hidden but then enter a creature's line-of-sight you are immediately unhidden 3. You can hide and sneak up "behind" a creature. (I put "behind" in quotes, because nowhere in the book does it talk about facing.) 4. Hiding in complete darkness is an automatic success. (I also don't get how light and heavy obscuration work with hiding. PHB 175 indicates that a lightly obscured area gives -5 to passive perception and disadvantage on active perception... but what about complete darkness?) |
| #25ShillingSep 26, 2014 22:40:33 | 1 and 2 are both correct (although you could conceivabley hide from a different enemy while nother can see you, as long as they can't comminicate with each other). You must break line o sight before attempting to hide.
For 3, combatants are assumed to be constantly moving and turning so do not really have a facing value in the core rules (expanded grid-combat may appear as a future rules module). Having said that, the DM can always rule that something or other is distracting an enemy enough for a PC to sneak up behind them. This would need to be out of the ordinary and clearly directional.
out of combat, it is fine to sneak up behind a creature as long as it is facing away from the sneaky point of approach.
If in doubt, just visualise the scene as ralistically or cinematically as you like and use common sense from there.
4. darkness confers the "blind" condition on any creature without darkvision. They can still hear though, so moving sneakily will require a stealth check to avoid giving away your prescence and rough position. Even if they can hear you, attacking a creature who can't see you confers advantage. Of course, attacking a creature you can't see confers disadvantage!
It can be easy to get bogged down in the stealth rules. Keep things simpke, visualise the situation and do what seems fair. I'm still trying to figure out the best approach for ruling my player's "pop-up sniper" tactic. |
| (Reply to #2)Redbeard2 |
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| #4NoonSep 27, 2014 18:15:08 | 1 is correct.
2 is open to GM intepretation as to what is required to lose stealth.
3 is more of an out of combat, GM determines if it can happen (preferably judging by how the fiction went - ie, drunk orcs all facing a campfire? Perhaps the rogue could sneak up from behind)
4, Dunno.
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| #5Gruff_IronfistSep 28, 2014 9:55:40 |
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| #6PsikerlordSep 28, 2014 15:13:54 |
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| #7MechaPilotSep 28, 2014 17:42:16 |
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| #8intentlySep 29, 2014 6:43:28 | Thanks for all the responses!
The situation that raised this issue for me is from the Cragmaw Hideout in Mines of Phandelver. There's a "lazy" goblin lookout on a bridge near the entrance of the hideout. The characters were moving stealthily and without a light source, and the goblin also had no light source. I made some rolls, and neither the goblin nor the characters noticed each other. The characters continued through the caves, passed under the bridge, and eventually came around to the level of the bridge via a different route. I made some more rolls, and at this point the players noticed the goblin but the goblin still didn't notice the sneaky players. The wizard(!) decided to sneak up to the goblin on the bridge and kill it with her shortsword. At this point I made yet another stealth roll and she got a 19, so I let her walk through 30+ feet of goblin line-of-sight, onto the bridge, and execute the goblin.
Granted, the characters did make some consistently high stealth rolls against this goblin, the goblin was described as "lazy", and the characters prudently decided to assault the hideout right before dawn. I'm comfortable with the result, but I'm not sure if I really applied the stealth rules correctly. |