Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 RTDB_Anthony Sep 25, 2014 13:41:50	I haven't had a chance to read the Monster Manual cover to cover yet, but I did read the rules section pretty closely.  Sadly, I didn't find any information on creating higher level versions of monsters.   For example, Mindflayers are my favorite monster, and typically I like to use them as the mastermind behind many of the grand schemes that happen in my campaigns.  Not to mention they have a wonderful backstory.   However, the average Mindflayer is just a CR 7 monster, not the best final villain for a huge campaign.  In 3.x I could simply add character class levels to a Mindflayer to increase its CR.  It doesn't look 5E has that option.    There is a variant Mindflayer who has spellcaster levels but this option is only CR8, one higher than the standard Mindflayer despite having access to several arcane spell levels.     Did I misread the MM, and not see the section that discussed adding levels to make monsters more powerful?  Is this something that will be discussed in the DMG?     It seems an oversight to not include the option to increase the difficulty of monsters such as the Mindflayer who are often associated with grand inter-planar plots.     I realize that I have the option of simply making up stats on my own or subsituting the stats for a higher level monster such as a Lich or Demi-Lich (with some variations), but I'm curious as to if or how the system addresses these issues.   Thanks in advance!
#2 StuleBrown Sep 25, 2014 14:08:20	There might be something in the DMG that will help but for now, all you can do is houserule it. It won't be too hard to alter the monster stats so you can get your evil mastermind,
#3 Ath-kethin Sep 25, 2014 17:51:36	StuleBrown wrote:
#4 5Shilling Sep 26, 2014 0:53:43	CR is a measure challenge in open, level combat. A mindflayer can still be your end-of campaign villain if he masterminds and commands many more-powerful mosnbters, and generally plots, shcemes and out-wits the PCs in a way that a mindflayer should.   So what about that final battle? Well there's at least a couple of ways to approach it.   Number one: in lots of fiction the big bad is actually a wuss and goes down easily once the heroes have beaten his bodyguard. This can actually be pretty darn satisfying.   Number two: the villain gets stronger through planning and preperation. Have a look at the Lair Actions in the MM and build the villain a deadly lair, full of hazards that can be triggered by the mindflayer.  Stack all the odds in the villain's favour. Throw in a bunch of his big CR15 underlings if you want. If all else fails give him a dragon as a mount! TEll the payers that it has mentally dominated the dragon into submission and they will terrified.   Of course you can beef up his stats if you want, but just be aware that you have other options. CR is not a "monster hierarchy" - a mid CR monster can totally boss around higher CRs.   Here's one other idea: what the players though was a single mindflayer turns out to be identical triplets! A secret coven of psychic overlords. In a way this even more strongly embodies the theme of mindflayers - loss of individual identity. and three CR 7 monsters plus minions should be a decent match for level 20 PCs, (if I am reading CR correctly, although you probably want to check the XP budget too).
#5 Catodon Sep 26, 2014 15:12:49	This guy is really pulling the math of 5th ed monsters apart and figuring out how to build them. Check it out http://surfarcher.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/d-5e-monsters-part-1-starter-set.html
#6 LongTimeLurker Sep 28, 2014 13:57:58	Surf also said in a different post that he saw value in adding a section on scaling mobs up or down CR levels and would do a blog post on it at some point. ​
#7 Timborama Sep 29, 2014 7:03:50	The Basic DMG also mentions that adding/removing equipment (armor, weapons, even magic items) adjusts the CR. It, unforunately, does NOT say by how much or give any guidelines. So...there's that!   But yes, either adjust your monster to what you hope is appropriate, adjust the encounter according to the Basic DMG encounter builder to an appropriate level, or go boss-hog and make your own thing using Surf's analysis