First of all - hello everyone 
My group is switching from FFG's Star Wars to DnD5 and we've decided to start our adventure with the new DnD with "Hoard of the Dragon Queen". So far I've read book, focused on the first chapters, and I have a question to those of you who have run it:
- Isn't the first chapter too deadly? There's a lot of combat (random encounters!) and 1st level PCs are fairly easy to kill with limited healing options. Also I have an impression that the first chapter would be more fun if a time factor was present (the night is passing, there is only so much the PCs can do, so they can't rest too much).
Or perhaps I'm wrong?
Edit: I should add that the party is made of 4 people: a druid, a sorcerer, a bard and a ranger. A cleric will join in a few weeks.
Advise please!
As it was written without the authors having access to the final version of all of the relevant rules, there are some discrepencies between the adventure in question and the rules and suggestions in the DMG.
Here are some quick fixes that focus on the first chapter, because things kind of smooth out a bit after that:
- Do not use the suggested 1 random encounter per 2 total failed stealth checks among the group - that makes too many random encounters happen, and has an opposite effect to the standard group check rules wherein 2 of a party of 4 succeeding at their stealth rolls means sucessful stealth of the group. Either use the actual group check rules, or a time-based check for wandering monsters (i.e. roll 1d20 every in-game minute, decide on a particular number like 18+ that means an encounter happens).
- Don't use the list of random encounters present in the first chapter - the way XP budgets and difficulty work out, most of those are at or beyond the "deadly" range for a party of four 1st-level characters, which means serious chances of deaths among the party even before compacting the issue with the urgency of the scenario and the non-random encounters.
- Don't use the book's "you can have the characters level up at the end of each chapter" option during the 1st chapter, if you intend to use it at all - there is a lot of stuff going on in that 1st chapter, and forcing the characters to stay 1st level while dealing with it all is entirely counter to the intent of reaching 2nd level only requiring 300 XP per character (which if you played the adventure as written, the party would likely have gained very early on during play - like in the first two missions possibly)
As for a time factor, one does not need to actually be forced because the description of the scenario (a city under attack) implies that there is one - most players will believe that they can't just sit and rest, at least not for too long, because the longer the attack goes on without their involvement, the more likely it is that the city falls/lots of people die/other bad things happen/et cetera.
Or you could start the characters at 3rd or 4th level instead of 1st and run the adventure as-is and with a more strict time factor involved because then they might actually be able to survie it and feel challenged by it, rather than feel like they are staring death in the face the entire time and hoping they don't blink first.
Thanks, that's really helpful!
I really don't want to start with higher-level PCs since we're new to this iteration of DnD. For the same reason I did want to use the milestone xp rule, so your point is about it is very valid! As is everything else.
Perhaps instead of sneaking through the town etc. I should allow a lore check for one of the PCs to remember about the secret tunnel, or the first saved family could tell them about it and then have an encounter there. So they'd emerge from the tunnel and (positively) surprise the defenders in the Keep... From then on, quests as described, with counting xp per capita.
What about offering the PCs limited healing supplies? And how limited should they be, i.e. how many potions would keep them alive, but still instill the sense of danger and limited resources?
Yes it is deadly.... thats part of its charm.
When you give them encounters, allow for some outs. One of our encounters had kobolds/cultists shooting at us from the rooftops... so we just Dashed right out of LoS and kept going. They do *not* need to fight every bad guy they see. You can use the encounters to keep them on their toes and feeling threatened, without having to actually be in that many combats.
Toss in a few more healing potions if you want, or an acolyte with healing at the Church. If doing a lot of the missions, you may be able to squeeze in a short rest for them....
But mostly, they need to *think* their way through the missions. The trip to the church is an auto TPK if they just barge right in... but there are a number other possibiiities.
SPOILER
In Ep 4 there is an encounter with 2 CR8 assassins. This is because the stats for assassins changed drastically while it was at the printers. EIther don't use that encounter, or replace them with something more appropriate.
Skie wrote:
I totally agree with the suggestion to let pcs level up when they get 300 xp. It is nice to have the fear of getting one shot for a little while, but if it goes on too long it limits player options and becomes a nuisance.
I'm playing in an online HoDQ campaign and if our DM didnt level us up mid 1st chapter we would not be playing the adventure much longer. We are now at 3rd level and we are exploring the hatchery. It is still very dangerous, but we are starting to feel a bit more heroic and we are loving it.
A lot of people have a problem with that episode, for precisely the reasons you've outlined. People tend to fall into either one of two camps A) it sucks because it's too damn hard or B) It was really tough and grueling, but that made it thoroughly enjoyable and rewarding.
The difference I've noticed between these two groups is their DMs. If you want to make this fun for your PCs, make some of your decisions during play. If the PCs are really lucky and smashing the encounters, throw them a curve ball by ambushing them on the way back to the keep or have some situation suddenly become time dependant when you were going to let them have a rest.
Likewise, if they are struggling in the fight at the sanctuary, start telegraphing the arrival of re-enforcements. i.e. Somewhere in the distance you hear a battlecry and voices calling out "Quick to the Sanctuary, the adventurers are holding them off single-handedly!". Then bring in the re-enforcements a round later. Making the heroes feel like they are rallying the troops not being rescued.
Monitor your PCs health, spells etc so you have your finger on the pulse and know when you're pushing too gard or not hard enough.
Keep it dynamic and hold them on the knife edge, so they feel harried, tired and finally victorious and you'll have a great scenario.
I wake up and find even more great suggestions - thanks! I do understand the need to make this part though. Bear with me and please tell me if I understand encounter building right:
For a party of 4 level 1 chars an easy encounter would be worth 100xp, medium 200 and hard 300. So, an acolyte (50xp) with two kobolds (25 each) would be easy, 2 acolytes and 4 guards would be medium and so on, right? I just add the xp worth and compare it with the above values. I should also remember that a party can handle about 6-8 medium-hard encounters per day... Is that about it?
Skie wrote:
Yeah... averages work 'over time'. So lets say a kobold has a 50% chance of hitting a PC, and will do an average of 4.5 HP damage. I can feel pretty safe that it will take about 12 kobold attacks to kill a PC with 25ish HP. Because 12 is a big enough number that the averages should work out (or at least reasonably close)
But when the PC only has 8-10 hp... it *should* take 4 attacks, but there is a decent chance it will only take 2. Just a little bit of bad luck can thrash a first level PC.
So.... y'gotta play it by ear. If they get unlucky in their first few enounters, 6-8 will be too much. But if they get lucky.... then 6-8 may not be a problem. And, of course, it matters how they approach the missions.
A similar effect happens with encounters... designing encounters for 4 5th level characters is a lot more reliable than 3 1st level characters.... depending on which races/classes can greatly impact encounter dificulty at that level. So again... you need to pay attention to it.
Now, this sounds like its really hard, but its kind of binary. If you are not paying attention, it is really hard; if you are paying attention it is fairly easy. So don't sweat it too much.
Last of all... don't forget the multiplers for encounter difficulty. An acolyte with 2 kobolds is 100XP, but since there are 3 creatures, it has the difficulty level of a 200XP encounter. (but you only award the 100XP)
Good points Coredump.
More advice to op:
If an encounter goes south, you can always have a random event occur that makes the foes scatter or run. If they see the dragon come back and attack the keep, they might run from combat to get a better view. If they knock the group out (TPK) they might bring them to another area as prisoners so that they can ransom them back later, or so they can show them to Cyanwrath to gain favor, etc.
Basically, if you want the campaign to continue have contingency plans for worst case scenarios. Hopefully you won't have to use them, but knowing you have plans will put your mind at ease.
i added a 2nd level paladin NPC to the party of three 1st level characters it worked out well.
So far I've added some encounters that don't have to end with combat; e.g. the PCs meet 2 mercs who don't attack at sight, but seem to think the PCs are also part of the raiding party (a moment for bard's deception to shine), a single kobold who begs for his life (Gollum-like groveling)- if they let him go, he'll bring friends etc..
Again - thanks for your suggestions, they're really helping me in smoothing this first chapter for my PCs!
In Ep 1, have the PCs already be in town before the raid begins. Saying "As you arrive, you see a dragon strafing the castle" is liable to gain you the rejoinder, "We hide out here where it's safe!" OTOH, if they are already eating dinner at the Inn and somebody yells "FIRE HELP FIRE", they are caught up in the adventure.
Build up Cyanwrath as much as possible.
- While the PCs are sneaking across town, the "random encounter" is that they see him from a block away, giving orders to some mercenaries.
- Cyanwrath stops some kobolds randomly setting houses on fire. He angrily demands of them, "You are supposed to empty the houses first, THEN set fires!"
- Purple outfit identifies him as a Cult leader, his is cut to look like a General's uniform (other Wearers of Purple look like High Nobles or fashionistas)
- While the PCs take a breather in the castle, they look across town and see him outside the mill - again it looks like he is giving orders. What's he doing now? A while later introduce the Mill Mission.
- A Cult member mistakes the PCs (hiding in a dark alley) for ill-equipped mercenaries and yells, "Did you forget Lord Cyanwrath's orders already?! We're not done here yet !"
When he shows up in person at the end of the raid, they ought to understand: this guy is important. Beating him would really mess up the raiders; they might dissolve into squabbling disorganized bandits. The PCs don't have to know that he alone is a Deadly encounter for the group - let alone Overwhelming for any individual.
edit: Purple idea
Cyanwraths my favorite part of that module. So deadly, but so cool!
Theros wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
It's worth mentioning that in Ep 3, where they face Frulam, she's probably going to flee. They all should be level 3, and she's CR 2. Assuming they don't outright kill her, she can be used as a bargaining chip in the fight with Cyanwrath, who's CR 4. As she outranks him, they could probably use her as blackmail against him, and thus dodge two hard fights.
Again, monsters don't have to be killed, and most of them are willing to surrender or negotiate if the odds are overwhelmingly against them.
BRJN wrote: