Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 daspian Apr 04, 2015 16:13:34	so i'm a player in one campaign and DM in another (different groups for both) in the one i am a player the guys there are a bit more experienced D&D wiise and wanted to do crafting, however they didn't really like the way 5e handled crafting, i've been bored AF and ironically was working on this project as well as a pricing guide using the info from the DM's guide and PHB... i told'em i had no problem writing up a homebrew method though it'd take some time and they said that's cool, plus i could offer it to the group i DM in, although some of them are newcomers to D&D or not as inclined to crafting... i thought it'd be nice to have this optiion...   anyways... thought i'd throw it up here for those who want to critique it or just say its to much damn work and im overthinking things or w/e...   excuse the formatting, yea it looks a bit cluttered, im just typing stuff up and will format it once its complete.   so basically what i just did was add a DC skill system to crafting, as well as categorize both magical and nonmagical items and associated them to these new crafting skills, i created a DC check required to craft said items resulting in either success or failure dependant on said check, with failure giving certain results, and success...well obvious what that gives.     Magic Items Price List    (Magic Items Complete, Sentient Items and Artifacts in progress)   Homebrew Crafting    (Alchemy/Fletching/Jewelcrafting/ Scribing done, rest of the skills still in progress)   ...while the crafting isn't ready yet...what are your thoughts? also as for the priciing, i basically just took the recommended price ranges via the DM's guide, if your wondering where i got my prices.... however i hvae heard some people find them to be outrageous, so the question i also pose is if i should change the prices for everything.   this is also a factor for crafting, as one of the reasons for crafting is not just being able to craft your own items, but the perk is you can do so at a discount versus just buying the item as shown in the charts in the doc. basically if you're skilled enough you can craft them n a manner conserving ingredients and materials and thus receive a discount. i also drastically shortened the crafting time needed to craft items, each crafting skills has specific crafting times.... one of the biggest complains i read about was the fact that it took like 20 days to make 1 potion of healing or something? i found that a bit redundant....so yea anyways... here ya go folks.... critique away...
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 04, 2015 19:16:43	I'm posting from my phone, so I can't go over your house rules yet, but I will once at a full keyboard. I'm just posting now to say that the existing magic item creation rules are actually different from the normal craft rules, and a potion of healing can be made in two days (or one day if you have the help of another qualified character, which is anyone of 3rd level or higher with spell slots and proficiency in the herbalist's kit), assuming you have the formula.   =========== Okay, I'm at a full computer now.    My first instinct is that this is too complicated, and you're digging yourself in a pit by adopting design assumptions separate from those running through 5e.    You split crafting into several separate skills (the term is important), but every class only gets a very small number of skills and there's no way to pick up extra skills after character creation (except by taking a level of rogue, bard, or ranger, or getting it as a class feature a la College of Lore). The simpler way to do this is to assign each type of craft to a set of artisan's tools instead, which reflects the same type of skill but 1) isn't a "skill" (so you don't eat up a precious skill slot with it, and you can use the Training downtime activity to learn how to use them) and 2) works just fine with the existing proficiency system, since an Intelligence (Carpenter's Tools) check and a hypothetical Intelligence (Carpentry) check would roll with exactly the same bonus. If it helps, the only tools you'd need to introduce are fletcher's tools, assuming you can't use something like woodcarver's. There are already tools for every other specialization you mention (although the herbalist's kit isn't technically "artisan's tools", it won't matter as far as checks to make things using it are concerned). With those in mind, all you need under the existing rules is a single price, and then it's a matter of handling downtime in a single sentence instead of a series of equations and rolls.   I do like the ability to accelerate crafting or potentially get a discount, but I think the math involved here is a bit too intense. A simpler way is to keep your DC system going, and use passive scores. If, say, a character's passive Dexterity (Woodcarver's Tools) score is high enough to meet the DC, they're considered skilled enough to rush the job or improvise a more efficient solution if they want, and can choose to roll a check. If they choose to roll and succeed, then either each day spent counts as two days, or each gold piece spent counts as two gold pieces. If they fail, then either each day spent counts as half a day, or each gold piece spent counts as half a gold piece. Roll the check for each batch of days he spends on the project (which might not be long enough to complete it). One optional check, one decision (trying to make it faster, or trying to make it cheaper), and you're done.   (Note: This also works for larger projects. Since you divide up the cost in gold and time by each worker, each worker on a team can roll their own check, which influences their share of the craft. You might also assign apprentice workers to the project who aren't actually working on it, but are instead doing the Help action. Just require that the apprentices also be proficient in the required tool and you're good to go.)   The alternative, the system you're proposing, requires an incredible amount of work on your end and a lot of bookkeeping on the crafting player's end, as I'm sure you're noticing, and I'm not sure it's actually adding much value to the game beyond what the craft rules already do, except for the ability to speed it up or build more efficiently.       There's also the minor point that you use a trebuchet as an example of something really complex, compared to an ornate sword. That's not quite the case - once you get the basic engineering down (which is quite simple, I might add), they're not that difficult to build. Here's one a buddy of mine put together over a weekend of spare time (while working on a physics degree, so it's not like this was done the same way downtime spent on crafting would be!).   (While I'm at it, Eberron is actually lower-tech than Faerun. Faerun has all manner of crazy steampunk nonmagical devices (including those capable of replicating many spell effects without so much as a nod to the Weave) and fully functioning guns (most of this was invented in Lantan, admittedly, but the firearms are quite widespread by this point, even showing up on starting equipment for anyone from the Sword Coast region!), while Eberron has none of the above. Eberron just makes actual use of the low-level magic that the game rules says is commonplace - for instance, in a society where taxes are collected and 110gp is all you need to hire one of the (reasonably common) NPC spellcasters to cast Continual Flame, it makes total sense that "street lights" exist instead of having everyone live as a dirt farmer. The Eberron artificer actually has no special proficiency with mechanical devices apart from his ability to handle traps like a rogue - his specialty is binding magic into items.)           In terms of elaborating a bit on the existing magic item creation rules, they're in the DMG on page 128 and 129 (with the required formulas also being mentioned on page 141, but they're intentionally left vague). Note the fixed creation cost (which, presumably, is affected by the suggestion on page 135 that consumables have half the cost of permanent items, but this isn't made explicit), the significantly faster creation rate (25gp per worker per day, although unlike regular crafting you spend the whole price instead of half), and the requirements (there's a level requirement, all workers need spell slots, and they have to cast the spell the item duplicates, if any), especially the discussion on formulas. I got the remark above about potions of healing and herbalist kits from the herbalist kit description, which is the only place in the entire game outside of p128-129 that discusses the creation of a particular magic item.   I'm bringing this up because you say 20 days to build a potion of healing, which is only true if you 1) don't cut the 100gp cost to create in half, AND 2) use the mundane item crafting rules, which makes progress in 5gp increments per day instead of 25 (but only spends half the cost in materials instead of full, and doesn't require any special requirements of the crafter beyond proficiency in the right sort of artisan's tools).
#3 daspian Apr 04, 2015 21:08:24	aye it isn't associated with skill checks, the formula is as follows, i was hoping it wouldn't be to complicated,  its just the crafting system now in 5e i've heard bad things about and apparently none of my group members like it, i couldn't really care about crafting... not a big deal to me, but there's some players in my group who realllllly want it cause they want to be able to craft scrolls and magic items.   Smithing: 1d20 + Str mod + Tool proficiency if proficient in blacksmithing tools (if you're not proficient you can still craft, but you don't receive teh proficiency bonus to it) (cause i figured it takes some amount of strength to be pounding a hammer all day)   i was originally going to associate crafting "skills" to actual already-made skills like athletics, nature, arcana etc, but found that would be restrictive to the classes that are not great in those skills.... so the crafting i had now was just flat d20s + your abil mods + proficiency bonus for said crafting tool if proficient in that tool, this way by associating abil mods, it'll scale i think a decent amount.   as for the pricing yea i'm not 100% on the pricing, i have no clue, but all the prices were taken from the DM's guide, same with the pricing list, then i just did math and did  -15% from the origianl price, and -30% from the original prices.   as for the skill checks DC's i just took similar DC checks that DM's use for traps or skill challenges etc 10 is easy, 15 is normal, 20 is hard  and so on so forth etc.   aye, i guess i'll start re-editting it, or just scratch it idk.... i'll have to do a bit of thinking...and take another look at the current 5e crafting rules that the book offers, not super familiar with it, all i did was scan it a bit, and read forums and here reviews and people bad-mouthing it... plus my group members didn't like it so i figured it must be bad ruling *shrugs* but at this point im starting to feel like all this stuff im typing is just to complicated, even though i originally thought it'd be a cool idea and provide more creativity... in the end i find it to be just way to complicated lol, ahh op well.... if there isn't a way to maybe simplify it down, i might just take a gander at the original rules again and see if i can't just tweak it slightly/hash it and throw it to my players... we'll see =S
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 04, 2015 22:09:50	daspian wrote: