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| #1OculeAug 29, 2014 15:11:07 | So far we are on episode 3 of "horde of the dragon queen" and so far the party consists of 4 players. A warlock, a sorcerer a fighter and a paladin. The module seems very difficult for players or maybe they are just making all the worst decisions or just bad luck. They got TPKed but i ruled they were simply knocked out and rescued during the second encounter in the campaign. Again in the dragon hatchery fighting the half dragon with his 2 berserkers TPKed them. Our warlock was missing so i gave them a healbot npc hireling using the acolyte stat block.
My question is this, is this normal for this adventure? If it is, is this normal for 5th edition? My players are telling me they feel its too difficult. Personally it feels like they arent really too good at the whole not dying bit. On a side note, should i have them survive again? I kind of dont want to deus ex machina their survival twice. |
| #2TrebuchetAug 29, 2014 20:55:54 | Some of the HotDQ encounters are tough. Partially this is due to being designed when monster stats were in flux, but it was also intentional to some degree. I recall reading something Steve Winter wrote that there are encounters that weren't meant to be defeated through pure combat, but instead designed as mental challanges that test the players' ability to asses a situation and judge that something isn't a winnable fight. I believe he cited the roper from Ep 3.
If your players aren't having fun because fights are too hard, I would simply scale them down a bit. Shave off some hp from the monsters, or reduce the number of monsters in larger battles.
Alternatively, you can be frank with your players and explain that some of the encounters are not meant to be solved by combat and they need to think outside of the box a little more. This might break the DM/player too much for some, but it may get your players to have a bit more fun with the challenging fights.
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| #3THEMNGMNTAug 29, 2014 23:47:41 | +1 to the above post. What you're experiencing is a problem with the adventure and not with the edition. Adjust the difficulty until you find a spot that both you and your players enjoy. Use your own judgment over what's written in the adventure. |
| #4CorwynnMaelstromAug 30, 2014 3:52:42 | When in doubt I usually *almost* take everyone down. Use your screen. Roll dice behind it. Mark hitpoints behind it. Cackle maniacally behind it. They have no clue (well, the occasional "I like to read books I shouldn't" player does..) how many hit points the creatures have, or if there are any conditions of the encounters which change how things work. (Oh, lucky you, you lured them off into an area where there's a natural hazard and one falls to his death: watch that step...)
Meanwhile try and adjust the encounters you throw at them to where their sweet spot is. |
| #5barefoottourguideAug 30, 2014 15:30:21 | And don't be afraid to compensate by making the locals being escorted to safety each have something useful. I gave proficiency in healing to one of them, proficiency with improvised weapons to another (whose token is of Jack Nicholson) and another has proficiency with her husband's sword (the husband fell during the first encounter), so it really only adds plus two to one thing per character but makes them more than cannon foddor and more memorable as fleshed out characters. Have a hobo with proficiency with stealth? Garrett |
| #6KentusAug 30, 2014 18:47:17 | HotDQ has a lot of hard encounters, which makes it much harder to win it, when DMing a less overthinking party. The creative use of features can be gold (like in the hatchling challenging Cyanwrath to a dual again, while the Sorcerer is using Subtle Spell to cheat for his teammates favor without anyone noticing) and don't be too stingy with advantage or disadvantage, if the player's are using some decent ideas, which will increase their odds. Those two alone can make the whole power-curve less frightening and brings math on your player's side.
And some encounters can be entirely avoided, let the players know, that avoiding combat grants XP like winning it, sometimes even more. If you avoid combat when you can, you have more resources when you have to fight. Encourage them to actually trick and fast-talk the kobolds, if they've a believable story, at least until they get the dragon's eggs... But even saying, they're dragon doctors and just checking the hatching status of the eggs might work...
You can customize the encounters, but don't necessary need to, if you can encourage the players to not fight at every opportunity and being more creative. |
| #7GaglugAug 31, 2014 22:46:29 |
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| #8HuscarlSep 01, 2014 12:28:21 | I have to say, it's terrific to see so many excellent responses here from people who "get it."
Steve
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| #9awogamanSep 01, 2014 13:13:16 | When I played through it as a player in one of my groups, I was able to use my 3rd level Battlemaster I had leveled up from Gen Con. I come from the "old skool" see monsters, roll initiative and attack, or, the really stewpud way to play, school. hahaha. Steamrolling fools for the win!
Anywho, I challenged the 1/2 dragon to a duel. My dude is a 1/2 orc dual-wielding Fighter Battlemaster, 3rd level. Had like 30 something HP. And I received Splint Mail from Gen Con, so my AC was 17.
I won initiative against him, and the gawds were on my side as I hit with both primary and secondary attacks were both criticals! I was cackling like a mad fool. hahaha. Due to 1/2 orc shenanigans, both had extra die of damage on the crits. 1/2 Dragon hits me with his breath weapon. Thankfully I saved and it rolled low damage. Next round, 3rd attack, ANOTHER CRITICAL!!!!! wooooooooooooo! I swear I wasn't using loaded dice. hahaha. Funny thing is I went into the fight expecting to get capped because I literally didn't roll above 6 during the previous encounters that night.
At this point I didn't know it, but had dropped him down to 1 HP. I missed my 2nd attack, and he recharged his breath weapon and zapped me again. Again I saved and he rolled low damage. Another round went by, I missed both attacks, and dragon again recharged his breath, used it, I saved, and low damage. At this point, whoever hit next was going to win. And I critted that bastard a 4th time! weeeeeeeee! I was seriously clapping like an idiot circus seal or something. It was awesome! hahahaha.
So, in short, if you are a decent level, and roll beyond exceptionally well and the DM rolls terrible for the bad guys, then you can steam roll those fools no problem! weeeeeeee. I don't particularly recommend that though as I was beyond lucky. haha. But most definitely a memorable evening fo sho.
Now then, as a DM, I'm going to be running some newbies through it. They played 4E and Pathfinder a couple times, but haven't tried 5e. They'll never bother with the Adventurer's League stuffs, so I am letting them roll their lines and start at 3rd level as I recall "back in the day," of 5E that it was recommended to let players start at 3rd level. Hopefully that extra boost will help them not get annihilated early on. I already warned them there's some stewpud-overpowered monsters that are likely to 1-shot them, so they're aware of the danger at least.
Anywho's, I would say letting them just get knocked out once is fine; as I believe in the first 1/2 dragon fight homeboy knocks em out if he wins then hits em again for 1 failed death save before villagers come in and stabilize them. So to me it's almost implied that once or twice is "OK" But I would try to avoid making a habit out of it or otherwise all they'll do is try to steamroll the baddies without any other tactics. I'm unfortunately ruined as literally every single time I've tried to steam roll the bad guys, it's worked. So I'm completely ruined and will now always do that. hahah. don't let your players become like me!! |
| #10EugeeSep 01, 2014 13:18:38 | I usually DM'd 4E. I played maybe three times, when someone else felt like DMing. Our party was escorting a valuable NPC through the dark streets when we got jumped by NPCs. There was some deadly-looking assassin guy in a cloak, and sixteen other rogues and brutes in the alleyway.
I looked around and said, okay, so those guys are all minions, and he's a controller/skirmisher.
Why? Because that's what encounters are in 4E. It never occurred to me for a second that we should RUN because we were seriously outnumbered.
Anyway it was a relief to read Horde of the Dragon Queen, which I'm so excited to run.
Speaking of which, any Kansas City players looking to join a bi-weekly gaming group for some 5E? |