Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dopplegienger Aug 24, 2014 13:29:04	So has anyone found a way to explain how a character (in-game), (thematically) is using his hit dice to recover hit points.     Please do not give me the speal about what hit points are, i get that.     What I am getting at is the overt dissociated mechanic of using a game mechanic like hit dice to recover hp.     If you dont understand what dissociated mechanics are please read this article: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/17231/roleplaying-games/dissociated-mechanics-a-brief-primer     I'm starting a new D&D 5 game with new players, most never played D&D. But I want a thematic way to use hit dice to heal. I cant think of one that works.     Any ideas?
#2 Atheosis Aug 24, 2014 13:41:07	Just get rid of hit dice and simply have them recover a fixed amount when they rest.  What that fixed amount is up to you.  They could recover half their max hit points with a short rest and all their hit points with a long rest for instance.
#3 iserith Aug 24, 2014 13:44:07	That article is bunk. Whether or not something is dissociated is a matter of how good an imagination someone has. If it can be explain "in-game," then it's not dissociated. That just takes imagination.   That said, you can just say the character is drawing upon limited reserves of will and stamina represented by Hit Dice to carry on. By successfully doing so, the character's hit points - the ability to avoid death and turn deadly attacks into less deadly ones - increase.   I think you're better off just asking your players what they think it means and going with that.
(Reply to #3) Dopplegienger	Ok thanks for the ideas guys they are both good.   I think the article is a little too critical on D&D 4th and 5th, TBH.   As of now my plan is to do the Hit Dice mechanic RAW, but since they are all new to the game I'm thinking of having the recovery automaticly take place when they rest, kind of like how your body recovers anyway without you micromanaging a strange mythical resource, after i get them hooked onto D&D and they are higher level, we could switch to them managing the Hit DIce, even thought a character managing themselves to recover or not(saving the hit dice for later for example) makes no sense thematically.   I like 5th very much this is the most painful part of the version for me. "Healing Surges"/Hit Dice/onvernight total recovery of hp, for example a character can fall 150' down a pit, which ill agree is survivable, but then he just rests 8 hours and presto your at full hp. not a bruise not a scratch all gone, no magic just 8 hours, that 150" pit was a meaningless threat.
#5 iserith Aug 24, 2014 14:29:31	Well, since you know what hit points are, then you know they're only meat when you say they are - so surviving that pit may have been an expenditure of luck, will, stamina, in additional to meat and bone. If it doesn't make sense to represent meat, then it represents something else that does make sense in context. Hit points are mutable that way. Similarly, hit dice are equally maleable in the fiction.   That the 150-foot pit was meaningless may be so if it didn't serve the purpose in the fiction for which it was intended. That has very little, if anything, to do with hit point loss.
#6 Atheosis Aug 24, 2014 15:48:29	Falling 150' would not be meaningless in my game.  Ultimately as the DM it's up to you how you want to handle such things (the default model is meant to be forgiving).  Falling 150' would kill or seriously maim pretty much any mortal as far as I'm concerned.
#7 Rhenny Aug 24, 2014 17:18:20	I just call it rest and bandage/tend to wounds.   The HD just serves as a refresher so that the group can press on.
(Reply to #7) Dopplegienger	Rhenny wrote:
#9 Eugee Aug 24, 2014 18:35:36	My question for you--do you have players not spending the HD when they rest?  I haven't even gotten to play 5E yet, but in 4E and 13A, my players spend recoveries (HD essentially) anytime they'll benefit from at least 75% of the recovery.
#10 Psikerlord Aug 24, 2014 19:59:53	Dopplegienger wrote:
#11 iserith Aug 24, 2014 20:07:01	Dopplegienger wrote:
#12 Dopplegienger Aug 25, 2014 0:30:58	Iserith, thank you for taking time to address my issue, I have the utmost respect for your posts, they are insightful and also wise. It's time for me to stop worrying about the small issues I have with "hit dice" and start playing this great game. You have helped me tremendously, and I thank you for your patience with my concerns. Thanks go out to all who responded happy gaming.
#13 Einiweini7 Aug 25, 2014 2:54:55	You spin as the sword strikes through the flesh of your upper arm.  DM: "you take 8 damage" PC: "I want to recover 1 D10"    The wound on your arm goes into shock, the bleeding slows and the pain you were feeling seems almost as if it wasn't even there. You take a fighting stance as the imposing warrior that you are.   Remember that even a 20th level character has the same body as a 1st level for the most part. It is just the experience of being a veteran able to turn the blows that makes the damge less. Alternatively...     You change your fighting stance. You feel that if the next blow should be as hard, that you will avoid taking that kind of blow again. That is how I would DM it. Consider it like micro-experience. During each fight the hero learns a little more about what might wound him/her and adjusts to the combat accordingly. That adjustment is made mid fight and so is the potential to be reduced to 0HP. He is not really regaining HP, he is instead reducing the incomming damage.   Lastly       You growl a challenge at the enemy. "Bring it". You shrug off the damage and advance.
#14 jpedumont Aug 25, 2014 8:31:22	I think of it has how they are spending their short rest. If a bard is dancing around he is not bandaging, napping, etc. Thus he is spending no hit dice.  So an injured player might treat a wound, spending a hit die. Then decide that's not enough I need to take a cat nap and spend another.    The one hour duration can make it implausible but that's the best I've come up with.    Basically what would a group of people do to "feel better" if they were hurt and tired and stopped for a break?
#15 Uldred Aug 25, 2014 14:43:14	In high school our swim practices during christmas break were brutal.  We would do distance in the morning then after lunch we would do sprints  Our swim practice was the same hours as a normal school day.  I bring this up because the lunch break we got we would eat in like 10 min and spend the rest of the time taking a nap and man did it make a difference for the sprint practice.  This nap was about 40 minutes.  So I can see where a short rest can bring some energy back for the character.   Another thing to keep in mind is hit points are not literal, if you take 5 damage that doesn't mean you literally get cut by the sword, it could mean you're just expending more energy to stay alive and sooner or later you will tire to the point you can't continue and your opponent will either knock you out or hit you with a fatal blow that will cut you.
#16 IxidorRS Aug 25, 2014 15:16:52	I never saw the problem in 4e. You're letting tensed muscles relax. Getting off your feet. Maybe there's some magical element as well, It's just nice to have a way to keep going. The flavor of it being closer to an hour instead of 15 minutes like 4e is interesting. Even getting off your feet for 15 minutes can be very beneficial. Likewise, getting up to walk around when you sit at a desk all day.
(Reply to #8) Slyck314	Dopplegienger wrote:
(Reply to #17) Danny_Montanny	Slyck314 wrote:
(Reply to #4) crimfan07	Dopplegienger wrote:
#20 crimfan07 Aug 25, 2014 17:31:25	Based on what folks are saying on this thread, I wonder if Hit Dice could be used to recover Exhaustion levels?
#21 bawylie Aug 25, 2014 18:59:52	Could be? Yes.    Spend them 1 for 1 to shed exhaustion levels. Or spend them as ratios. (If you have 3 levels of exhaustion, you spend 3 HD to go to 2 levels of exhaustion. Then spend 2 more to go to 1 level, etc).    Me? I'd do all that and have each hit die restore HP.
#22 Regin_Vargtass Aug 26, 2014 8:53:24	The result of the HD could represent how successfully you tend your wounds, or how well you were able to rest.   Low result: "You frantically need your sleep, but fear and worry interrupt you as soon as you start drifting off", or "Although you bandaged your cuts and rested your hurt ankle, a dull pain still bothers your movement, occasionally sending white-hot spikes through your bones".   High result: "You manage to expertly knock the dislocated shoulder back in place, and put tight and clean bandages on all cuts and scrapes. After a short nap, you're as good as new".   ... or anything in between.   - Vargtass
#23 Goober4473 Aug 26, 2014 9:49:24	Dopplegienger wrote:
#24 Prism Aug 26, 2014 17:31:15	Dopplegienger wrote:
#25 Noon Aug 26, 2014 19:22:42	iserith wrote: