| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1BringBackRavenloftSep 18, 2014 5:00:33 | How do you handle your players being lost, say, in the woods, as a DM? Specifically, how do you slow the pace of the game down and indicate to the players that they are lost from a role playing perspective? I'm not so much looking for game mechanics as I am thematic ideas of isolation, survival, and the elements. I want the characters to feel isolated and frustrated that they are lost, but I want the PLAYERS to be engaged and interested. I want to do more than just have them roll a die to get "unlost" but I'm drawing blanks as to how to incorporate being lost in my game effectively. Ideas? |
| #2AsperdnSep 18, 2014 6:51:35 | I think conveying this will be a matter of really good descriptions so let’s say a player is lost in the woods wright four or five really good descriptions of the woods and repeat them in different orders as the player passes through the woods. This will over time give the feeling of the lost effect where you don’t know where you are where you have been or if you have doubled back on yourself. Now back up your discerption with skill checks like survival with impossibly high target numbers make each check harder than the last too represent them becoming more and more lost. After the forth or fifth roll I guarantee the player will fell frustrated and start to panic. In order to become unlost make them roll play into a solution that will lower the target number of the check so if the play says something like I follow the river downstream until I hit a village let the target number get lower until there not lost. Or maybe the player climes a tree to get a better vantage point lower the target number by x amount then. |
| #3bawylieSep 18, 2014 7:32:31 | Recall the experience of getting lost, of being lost, and of finding your way.
To begin with, when you're getting lost, you're looking for familiar visual clues that SHOULD be there but aren't. And you think "maybe just a little farther." People who are getting lost don't know they are lost. As you describe the situation to the players, make clear that they haven't yet come across what they expected and suggest that maybe they haven't gone far enough. Ask what they do.
People who are lost react differently. For the untraveled or inexperienced, there might be panic and a resolution to find anything or go up just to look. Maybe even turn around and go back (at least that's familiar). For the naturey classes, being lost in the wilderness is like being lost in Walmart. There's a sense to the place but you're not in any real danger of never making it out. Get that naturey character lost downtown and then they might panic as above. When someone is lost, play up that experience Per Adventurer. Tell them what they begin to feel and ask what they do about that.
Keep the desired feelings in mind, describe the alienness of the situation, and put a little pressure on. ("If you don't arrive before X then N will worry and do Y.") And finally, you don't have paragraphs to write - people won't listen that long at the table. Work it in 2 sentences and a follow-up question, at most. |
| #4iserithSep 18, 2014 7:51:49 | I think there's a definite need to underscore the cost to being lost. What is it about being lost in this scenario that makes it a big deal and something to be avoided? Is it missed opportunity - an adventure you wanted to go on will be in jeopardy? Is it particularly dangerous to be lost because of the Blair Witch or whatever? Will someone important pay because you're late or a no-show? |
| #5abs1nthSep 18, 2014 9:23:34 | I know you said you aren't looking for game mechanics but I think a skill challenge could work really well to get characters back on track with failure perhaps leading to a challenging random encounter. Everyone trying to work together, one person checking for tracks, looking at the stars to get a sense of direction, other people observing the way the birds are flying, checking on which side the moss is growing on the trees, climbing up a tree to get a better vantage point etc.
As for the feeling of isolation I'd agree that it just comes down to good descriptions. Watching a movie/show that features a scene of characters getting lost might give you some inspiration. |
| #6BW0222Sep 18, 2014 14:03:28 | You need to clarify the degrees of 'lost'. Ok... they may not know excactly where they are, but... Can they see any landmarks? Can they skill figure out directions? Do they have a basic map of the world can can figure out generally where they are or what is in a general direction -- such as coast, river, forest, hills, etc.? Unless players are utterly blowing their wisdom (survival) checks, they likely have some idea what way the sun is rising? Whether they can maintain that direction of travel is a different matter.
Obvious signs folks are getting lost...
* They don't agree on things. Tell each player they think north is in a slightly different direction. * They don't encounter things they think. They think by going west after a half-day they'll run into a river. They don't. * They circle. They encounter rocks, trees, campsites, etc. which they have already been to. * They misjudge distances or directions of travel. They think they have travelled ten miles, but only made it five. They estimate the mountains in the distance are 20 miles away convincing themselves that they must have missed the miner's camp, yet the mountains are 40 miles away and they are still 15 miles away from it.
Normally, I'll roll wisdom (survival) checks secretly for each player and give them slightly inaccurate information -- based on how badly the role was. Players can then decide which one they believe -- often a druid or ranger -- even if they may be wrong. I'll then vere them off course or distance based on how far off their roles were. However, in many terrains it is generally hard to get lost over long distances. The sun and distance land marks give general directions and roads, rivers, and terrain changes can be used to confirm distances.
Effects of being lost are typically...
* Consuming food or water as they waste days circling, zig-zagging, following the wrong fork and needing to backtrack, etc. * Unable to find fresh water or food as you enter areas which don't have them.. marshy areas, deserts, rocky hills, etc. * Running into wandering monsters, animals, lairs, bad terrain, etc. * Ending up a river, lake, mountain areas not suitable for crossing. * Arriving late for whatever you had planned. * Getting caught in rain, fog, wind storms, other other bad weather conditions. |
| #7BringBackRavenloftSep 18, 2014 23:04:58 | Good stuff, thank you. ![]() What is the best way of handling the slowing of the pace during all of this without simply "skipping time" (and thereby minimalising / negating all of the dangers of being lost)? I want to impart upon them the danger and hopelessness without boring them. Should I do it narratively, roll it all out, combination of both? Something else entirely? This has already been a big help, thank you. |
| #8Eris.ShruggedSep 18, 2014 23:53:44 | If your using hexs, a good way to deal with it, is to use fudge dice. Once they are lost roll a fudge dice when they try to move to a new hex. On a blank they move into the hex they mean to, but on a + they move to the one to its left and on - they move to the one on it's right. |
| #9jdarksongSep 19, 2014 5:32:41 | For me, lost is a great time to introduce something new and unexpected. Whether it's an adventure hook or a site based adventure, or something off the top of your head.
Start with something akin to "You expected to be out of the woods by now, but ahead, all you can see are the continuing line of trunks and heavy underbrush. Something is definitely wrong." Let the characters react - give them options other than "I make a survival check to get unlost" by asking how they're going to do that. Climb a tree and view the area, cast a spell that will help, seach for tracks, etc.
Once they realize they're lost is the time to introduce a hook. A small dungeon, a strange previously undiscovered animal, just something to avoid the simple and bland "I roll to get unlost". Once they interact with your side trek, then give them a clue to get back on track. |
| #10thehobbSep 19, 2014 6:58:50 | I'd say the first thing to do is not tell them they're lost.
Being lost is something that often (not always) comes on gradually as what you expect does not coincide with what you find.
The party goes into the swamp heading, what should be a fairly straight shot, to the Temple of the Sun. Instead of reaching it in late afternoon, it's getting dark and they still haven't seen it. Did they pass it? Have they not gone far enough? What do they decide to do?
Then as jdarksong says, don't give them rolls to get unlost, give them rolls for what they do - successes giving them clues toward getting unlost.
You could perhaps even determine how lost they are by what they do.
If they have an idea to climb a tree to look around, maybe they make a perception check - successful and they see what looks like a stone tip of the temple not too far away, failure and you give them the same clue except when they get there it's just a big rock. At that point maybe it's only DC10 to succeed, but if they fail the check, or they just plough on thinking it's a bit further on, the next time they try a check it's DC15, then DC20 (I wouldn't go above DC20).
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| #11bawylieSep 19, 2014 7:11:12 | Try not to think of "lost" as a lack of something.
Lost doesn't mean your party finds nothing. It means they find something, but not what they were looking for.
So when they get lost, get to work deciding what it is they find. Fill that lost space. |
| #12CentauriSep 19, 2014 12:10:27 | I commend you for wanting the characters to be frustrated while the players are entertained. The players should never not be entertained.
I haven't done much with this kind of scenario, but when I think of being lost, I think of unexpected landmarks showing up when they shouldn't, or sooner than they should and expected landmarks not showing up at all - or have I just not gotten to them yet. I think of rounding a corner and not seeing what I expect. I think about not realizing I'm lost until backtracking becomes a risk to my schedule or health, or becomes too late entirely.
So, I guess it comes down to time. Time is generally crummy to track in RPGs, as are resources, so that's about where my advice runs out. |
| #13BringBackRavenloftOct 09, 2014 15:07:19 | I also found this to be fairly helpful:
http://morethanjustsurviving.com/how-to-find-civilization-when-you-have-no-idea-where-you-are/ |