I'm building a plot and I need to permanently kill an NPC at some point. Short of turning him undead (which I don't want to do) I am not sure of what way to permently kill someone so that no one can revive them using spells. I also don't want to send them to another plane or anything, I would like evidence of their death to remain (perferably their corpse).
The DM narrates the results of the adventurers' actions, always. If you say that bringing the NPC back from the dead doesn't work, then it doesn't work, period. There is justification for this coming up in the DMG (basically, the soul of the individual chooses whether to come back and nothing can force it), but you don't need the DMG to make that call. You're the DM, you say what the result of adventurer's action is!
Yeah I understand this, but I like to stick to cannon and be by the book as much as possible. I like the world to be consistent and believable. In other words I like for the 'rules' and 'laws' of the universe I am operating in to be predictable and understandable so that PCs don't feel as though I'm pulling a rug from under their feet on a whim and changing laws of the universe however and whenever I see fit.
Your example of a soul not wanting to come back to its body is not bad, though it doesn't fit my plan that much. Talking to you about this has however given me another great idea! I'd still like to hear input of ways to permanently kill someone if anybody has ideas though!
If you are looking for an in-game way to justify it, then perhaps the method in which he was killed prevents restoration magic from working? It's a property of the wickedly carved, black iron sword that was used to kill him, for example. Or maybe a magic ritual was performed on his corpse to prevent revival.
DateOfLies wrote:
Ansbach wrote:
well by the book, becasue of the spell miracle/wish, true ressurection and the cleric ability divine intervention, there is always a way to ressurect someone short of a disintegrate spell the body (so no piece are left) then soul jar the soul in a gem, that you go hide in a close random dimension, impossible to reach since no item exist to planar shift to that dimension, and no one have the knowledge of which dimension he want to. And even there, a well worded wish/miracle might let the player found out the information, then unravel everything.
Back in 3rd edition, if the soul didn't want to come back it was impossible to ressurect the person, but that rule has not been written in 5e yet (but has not been modified neither, so it woul dstill be within the DM power to rule if the soul can decide to accept or refuse a ressurection spell.
Then the spell in the PHB are the spell available to PLAYERS, it it completly within your DM power to create a NPC only spell that wold prevent a corpse to be ressurected. If the player want to learn that spell (for some reason) they'll have to research it and learn it, it's not a given spell when you level up like those in the PHB, for the same reason that in 3.X edition EPic spell had to be created and only the creator could use them.
But if you want to make the ressurection VERY difficult, use a disintegrate spell to complettly destroy the body, so now you would need to wish/miracle the body back, then you could true ressurection/wish/miracle the body back to life. Since you want evidence of their death leave something else, his wedding ring that he would have never remove short of dying, or a marble that he had swallow whem he was younger and never got out of his stomach, or some homeless guys saw him die, the player can commune with nature/divine and receive an answer that he's dead etc... they could see an apparition in there dream? But if you want to corpse, and follow the rule in the PHB, then even if the corpse is mutilated a true ressurection spell (lvl 9) will be able to ressurect the corpse and regenerate the missing parts.
The only permanent death that i know is by old age, but even that you could create a clone body, then reattach the soul to it
A magic weapon that traps the soul would be the easiest option, though you could also work up some sort of magic weapon that outright destroys the soul. Just be careful with that thing, when the PCs are around.
According to the blogosphere, the DMG will state the following:
- A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity of the character attempting to raise them, and can choose not to return.
This is consistant with older editions, which had similar rules pertaining to ressurection.
What level are the players?
Do NPCs willing to cast spells for the players actually exist in your setting? (they don't tend to in mine)
Sorxores wrote:
What level is the NPC? What level are the PCs? This can configure a lot into your decision, because even if returning from the dead is made readily available (it is not easy in my world. Not impossible or even particularly difficult, just not "pay x, get rezzed"), the methods all have limits. Raise Dead can't Raise someone missing a head, heart, liver, whatever. True Resurrection is a 9th level spell. Maybe the NPC gets disintegrated and blows away in the wind but leaves all his possessions and some stray dust (that the party wizard can identify as tiny pieces of the NPC). Maybe their body falls into a volcano, down an whirlpool, or some other "really really hard to get" place. Maybe the PCs see a CHUNK of the NPC, like his head, an arm with his signet ring on it, or whatever. Cursed objects also work wonders. Remember, you're the DM, so you make the rules!
Do the PCs have access to resurection magic? If so, look above to see the limits for them. Do NPCs have this? If so...why? Maybe the NPC that dies is the only dude in town with that magic? I know you have a purpose for this character (some important figure that has to die because Plot), but maybe that can be added on?
But the answer can also be as simple as "Hey, don't resurrect me when I die" sorta thing. Could be against his beliefs (and an underhanded foreshadowing, if you do it right!). I mean, I'm assuming this is your qualm, the idea that they can just say, "Hey, you guys have a spare 1k gold lying around? Oh good! Let's go rez James. He was cool."
Also, WHY is the NPC dying is important, so we can set the stage of Where, When, and How after that 
Especially with the "find the body" clause!
Recently, I killed an NPC that had been around since my first campaign. Powerful stuff. Basically he was killed in front of the PCs by an evil dude with a cursed Vorpal Sword. Resurection magic isn't easy to do, as I mentioned, and my telegraphing of the event was a clear "No, you can't just pay money and have him come back"
I don't allow people to come back from the dead easily, but mostly that's because I use the Asgardian pantheon where even the gods that die stay dead.
But all of the raise/resurrect spells require a body. If the body is destroyed - burns in a fire, melts into a puddle of goo or evaporates because of a particluarly nasty poison, gets eating by a grue there is no body.
There could also be other reasons the person doesn't want to be raised. They were cursed, their sprit is being prevented from returning by some other power, etc.
Asside from "just" killing the NPC, which can be revived with almost no problem, you'd need to destroy the person's soul. This can be done in any manner of way, but regaurdless, if the NPC doesn't have a soul to ressurect, then nothing could bring them back, not even a wish or divine intervention. Once the soul is gone, there's no life force to put back into a ressurected, cloned or otherwise intact body. The body itself can still be raised as an undead, but this process does not require the use of the person's soul, so the body could still come back, but there would never be the correct life force/soul to inhabit it.
"We tried raising him and it didn't work. Nobody understands why."
Because an ordered universe is an illusion and the only laws are those that come out of your mouth as the DM.
Run the spectrum between Everyone Resurrects All The Time Forever to Raising the Dead is Dangerous and Rare to Hi, I'm George Martin and You Will Only Come Back as Something Terrible, If You Come Back At All.
Anyway as I stated, I figured out a solution to my problem while keeping the laws of the universe I am operating in consistent, despite claims to do as I please. I want to constraint myself to a consistent laws of the universe to keep that universe well, consistent. Otherwise if I can do as I please, I feel it would be lazy to just have things roll on a whim without keeping them in check and tethered to a reality. I've had DMs pull the most incoherent crap on me and tell me "just because" as justification as a player and I felt it was just sluggish on their part. Just because we operate in a fantasy world doesn't mean that world doesn't have an order and that one can pull off anything they want. I would go into more details as some have asked but I'm afraid at least one of my players frequents this board so I don't want to go into more detail.
To give maybe just a bit more color though, the person I am thinking of is extremely powerful and lives in a very large city and would absolutely have access and the means to have someone resurrect them. Again I figured out a solution that fits extremely well in my story so it's not a problem.
BuddhaKai wrote:
The Wish spell exists, and Gods can do any damn thing they please, so if you're looking for an answer in the official rule books that make an NPC completely, 100% unable to be restored to life, they don't exist.
I'm actually more curious about the resources available to this NPC's allies that they could make it happen given all the ways to make resurrection insurmountably difficult, as suggested in the preceding posts.
Roll the relevant skill check and as your DM - does my character know a way to kill someone without him being able to come back or does he know someone who might have that information. Then go ahead with the adventure that the DM throws for you.
DateOfLies wrote: