Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 falloftheraven Jan 22, 2015 10:02:59	I am running a session of d&d and am a new dm. everyone i am dming save two have not played before. I am having diffuclty keeping the players in universe, particularly my wizard. she has been using the wizard catrip that allows you to project sound into opponents mind to full there mind with jb, nickleback, rebeca black and the like in an attempt to "drive them insaine". I have spoken to he about it but she refusese to stop.   the salution i try next is going to be in essese the goblin hears the music getts annoyed and angry but remains calm and focused, giving a +1 to all attack roll from that goblin   so you think that will work, and if not what should i try next?
#2 bawylie Jan 22, 2015 10:11:03	falloftheraven wrote:
#3 bawylie Jan 22, 2015 10:11:38	Most of the time, it's better to build off a player's ideas than to punish them for having them.
#4 Synjin Jan 22, 2015 10:20:30	bawylie wrote:
(Reply to #3) Kazadvorn	bawylie wrote:
#6 Noon Jan 22, 2015 11:05:17	Usually I find if you rephrase what the player is saying 'So you use some really bad music to make them go mad?' they'll probably agree. They just need to use a real world example to get across what they mean about the badness.   If they actually do insist on it being real world bands, just say no. If it screws up gaming for you, then it's essentially the same as not gaming at all at that point (in fact no gaming is better than bad gaming). So what's going to happen - they or everyone quits the game over you saying no? No gaming is better than bad gaming anyway so who cares if they do; just say no.
#7 iserith Jan 22, 2015 11:11:19	While it's true that only a goblin could like Nickelback, there appears to be a mismatch in expectations about the tone of the game here. I suspect there was no agreement made to maintain a particular tone before the campaign began. D&D is pretty silly on its own, so without such an agreement, cracking jokes like this isn't all that uncommon. It's also a way for players to deal socially with aspects of the interaction of the game they find a little daunting. Breaking the fourth wall or telling a joke helps take the edge off. Plus it's just fun. See Acquisitions Incorporated - that's all about cracking wise and barely "playing the game."   I'm not sure of the cantrip you're referring to, but I'll assume you're adjudicating it correctly. Now the thing to address with the player directly, outside the game, is how you're hoping to maintain a particular tone for the game and that, while distracting an enemy with the annoying tripe of talentless losers is a viable tactic, references to real world performers who match that description isn't respecting the tone of the game you had in mind. Seek the player's buy-in on the tone by explaining it to her in the clearest fashion possible and what awesome things you think respecting the tone will achieve with regard to the game experience. If she has counter-proposals, consider them and try to incorporate them with your own ideas. Once you have her explicit agreement, carry on and remind her of her agreements as necessary down the road. (People should be held to agreements they make!)
#8 bawylie Jan 22, 2015 11:17:49	That's why everyone should be starting their game with a session zero - to get to a place where everyone agrees what's cool and what's not.    If the proposed action has a chance of failure, it needs a DC and an ability check. So if there's a goblin who might rock out to ACDC or weep at "I will remember you," then set the DC and let the player roll to see if it works.    if you're sure this particular goblin WILL be enraged by Hit Me Baby One More Time, then give him a bonus instead. But saying every enemy reacts by getting a buff as a retaliation against the player is punitive. It's bad DM-ing to use the system against the player.
#9 Cyberqat Jan 22, 2015 19:36:04	So, i have some geneal suggestions for you on thsi subject.  I run serious roleplay oriented sessions and I expect players to stay in charactet.  These are the rules I lay down, They may seem a bit draconian but I have found them very effective.   (1) The game has two states, game down and game up.  When we are playing we are  in game up state.  The rest of these rules apply to game up state.   (2) When you speak, it is your character speaking and I will react to it as such.  (exception is 'housekeeping' things like "can I loo kat the PHB " or "I need to go to the bathroom.")   (3) When you discuss things, it is your characters dicussing things.  If you dont want to be overheard by NPCs then take steps to avoid it.   (4) If you say you do something, you did it.  No "I was just kidding."   (5) You know what your character knows.  Ask me as GM about something you don't know and, unless its knowledge you can roll for, I won't tell you.   (6) Your charatcer does NOT know everything you know.  I epxect you to keep player-only knowledge out of your character's play.   (7) If you talk about things my NPCs don't know anythign about, at most they will think your crazy.   So,  if a player told me they wanted to project a Billy Joel song into someones head I would look them in the eye and say,"You've never heard of Billy Joel."   I would then give them a moment to think about what they could do instead.   I make these rules clear up front and repeat them periodically and for new players so, as others have  pointed out, there is no confusion as to expectations,
(Reply to #9) CCS	Cyberqat wrote:
#11 falloftheraven Jan 23, 2015 9:34:48	Ok thank you all, taking into consideration the advice I am forming the idea of abad bards lueage/bbl (the first b in reality wont stand for bad) that will be in every majior city as per your peices of advice
(Reply to #10) Cyberqat	CCS wrote:
#13 Cyberqat Jan 23, 2015 10:17:36	Oh and one more rule thats important, which is a corrollary to rule 3 about discussion...   Keep track of where you are in game world.  If you give another player a suggestion when you are NOT in a place and position to give that  advice, the advice becomes a verbotten action-- the player is forbidden to act on it, even if they woudl have coem up with it independantly. A nice side effect is that this also tends to discourage party splitting.
#14 QwertyAzerty Jan 23, 2015 10:17:41	CCS wrote:
#15 Dave_son_of_Dave Jan 23, 2015 10:17:55	If its bothersome, rather than correct the player (who seems to be doing it for fun rather than any malicious reason), feel free to narrate something to the extent of "The goblins suddenly are bombarded with the middle age equivelent of Nickelback, and they become quite irate," or something to that extent. The wizard is probably using contemporary terms and band references more as a way to emphasize what kind of music she thinks should be going on in the goblins head.   Also, don't worry overmuch about the players making a joke every now and again. I personally find a loose table is a good table, rather than everyone being uptight. Obviously, if someone is going too far, than yes, you might have to intervene. But if its just someone making a reference, it's certainly not the end of the world.
#16 alienux Jan 23, 2015 11:07:08	Personally, I like it when players make pop-culture jokes when they play. I'm not big on games being taken too seriously and it can add some good memorable laughs when you have a good group of people who can play off of each other that way without becoming so distracting that it takes away from the game.   Some groups want to be ultra-serious, and that's fine; I would never condemn that style of gameplay, but I'd much rather be able to laugh and make geeky reference jokes as I play with my friends and have them do the same. So, as has been mentioned, if it is really necessary, take some time to get everyone on the same page if you want a more serious tone to your game. If not, relax and go with the flow when someone makes good goofy jokes that don't take away from the gameplay.   If you want to see some really great games that excel at pop-culture jokes while still keeping the game rolling, go to YouTube and watch any of the Chris Perkins games where he DMs for Aquisitions Inc. at the PAX conventions. Heck, even if you don't like to play in those kinds of games, watch these anyway to see some great examples of DMing and keeping a game fun and interesting.
(Reply to #13) bawylie	Cyberqat wrote:
#18 paulstrait Jan 23, 2015 19:51:50	alienux wrote:
#19 JDizzleton Jan 24, 2015 9:00:16	I was going to start a thread on this same topic but it seems the OP and I are experiencing similar issues.   At my table I've been having (in my mind) problems with a c ouple of players joking around too much. I don't mind cracking jokes every once in awhile but it's gotten to the point where I'll be describing a scene and introduce two new NPC names and before I can finish one of the players is interuppting me and turning the name of the NPC into some kind of smack talk or joke or reference. Every. Single. Time.   I DM the game because I'm interested in creating an immersive universe and storyline, so it's disheartening to spend my time preparing for my campaign only to have players turn my NPC's and encounters into opportunities to say ridiculous things or carve the corpses of their foes up so they can wear their skin and so forth...   I understand the point of the game is to have fun, and I want my players to have fun, but with too much ridiculousness I'm no longer having fun running the game. Like I said, I have no problem wih joking around at the table as long as it's not constant or interruptive. In retrospect we should have talked about the tone of the game from the beginning to get everyone on the same page.   So what do you think, am I trying to take the game too seriously at the expense of my players? What do you do at your table to reign in some of your players excessive joking around?
#20 alienux Jan 24, 2015 9:14:08	JDizzleton wrote:
(Reply to #18) Miladoon	paulstrait wrote:
(Reply to #17) Cyberqat	bawylie wrote:
(Reply to #19) Cyberqat	JDizzleton wrote:
#24 BoldItalic Jan 24, 2015 13:00:53	falloftheraven wrote:
#25 Devils-Advocate Jan 24, 2015 13:46:15	BoldItalic wrote:
#26 BoldItalic Jan 24, 2015 16:00:58	Devils-Advocate wrote:
#27 paulstrait Jan 24, 2015 17:08:46	Miladoon wrote:
#28 paulstrait Jan 24, 2015 17:25:29	Cyberqat wrote:
(Reply to #22) bawylie	Cyberqat wrote:
(Reply to #12) CCS	Cyberqat wrote:
#31 Pandaemonius Jan 24, 2015 23:54:00	falloftheraven wrote:
(Reply to #31) Cyberqat	Pandaemonius wrote: