Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 KlaudisRex Mar 23, 2015 0:22:38	I'm sending my players to the Mere of Dead Men soon.  It's a swamp in the Forgotten Realms. In my mind, this is a very dangerous big swamp and I want it to be creepy with a low hanging fog or mist that obscures vision, line of sight etc. I'm looking for something a fair and balanced ideas to incorporating some fog in my next few battles.   I once played a 3e Ravenloft game where the "Mists" we're a permanent outdoor feature that penalized all combatants with a 10% miss chance (ranged, and ranged spells) and a 5% miss chance for melee (and melee spells) on a d100 roll (to make things quick, I had the players roll the d100 with the d20, instead of separately).  Vision was also hampered by only 15 feet away.  So back then I thought it was fair, and sometimes they missed and sometimes they didn't.     What do you think.  I'm in need of a similar type of hampered vision for this swamp.  Should I use my old Ravenloft houserule? Or do you have any other ideas. Should I amend it somewhat? Is it too tough? Too easy (I dont want it overbearing, but I do want some hinderance)   Has anyone even used obscured vision before in thier games?
#2 EmpactWB Mar 23, 2015 1:55:29	Rules for obscured vision are on page 183 of the Player's Handbook. Personally, I think they work perfectly well if you assume that up close (10-15 feet) it's clear, out another 30 feet or so you have lightly obscured area, and beyond that there's so much mist that it's essentially heavily obscured. That way they have less chance of avoiding danger but they aren't particularly hampered in combat. Unless they try to split up and can't find each other again, but that's another issue entirely.
#3 Barky Mar 23, 2015 2:38:51	Toss in a "stink rule". Marsh gas can be pretty nasty. CN save or fight at disadvantage. Allow a save per hour, once they save they are no longer affected by it.
#4 RasmusNord Mar 23, 2015 4:01:29	There's also more conditions in a swamp than the mist.  - slipping, sticking or sinking in the mud  - swimming in pools -getting dragged down and drowned - noise being warped by the mist, creating confusion
#5 akr71 Mar 23, 2015 8:23:17	RasmusNord wrote:
#6 BRJN Mar 23, 2015 13:56:58	If your party is melee-incompetent but loves artillery duels, go easy on the mist.  Crimp their style - no XL-range longbow sharpshooter stunts - but note where Short range is for shortbows and thrown weapons.   If your party prefers melee and hates long-range fights, then have somebody single-arrow snipe at them once in a while from just barely in sight, then fade back into the mist.  Maybe later they find a "duck blind" the locals use.  If the group pursues a shooter, let them catch up close enough to shoot back ... but maybe not defeat the pest (unless he's a minion).   Be sure the party can hide in the mist, too - not just the enemies.  The guy with Stealth can feel cool and powerful if he watches the guard patrol walk under the tree where he is hiding up in the branches, and they don't even notice he is there.   You could also have the mist be thicker in the early morning, and thin out during the day.  So it's safer to camp out at night due to somebody would have to trip over you (or follow your trail) to find you are even there.   Wildscape is a 3e sourcebook that gives lots of outdoor hazards and ways to mechanically simulate them.    Most important, though, is exposition: tell the players what it's like out and give Theatre of the Mind some material to work with.  If you have time during Spring Break, find some 1930s-era radio serial recordings (Lone Ranger, say) and listen to them.
#7 pukunui Mar 23, 2015 14:32:04	As others have noted, the PHB does address vision. Patchy fog makes an area lightly obscured, which merely imposes disadvantage on sight-based Wisdom (Perception) checks. Opaque fog makes an area heavily obscured, which imposes the blinded condition, which in turn imposes disadvantage on all the affected creature's attacks.   I personally wouldn't bother with the percentile miss chance. That's a relic from previous editions that is now covered by 5e's disadvantage mechanic.   With that in mind, you could either go with a) the area within 15 feet is clear and anything beyond that is lightly obscured or b) the area within 15 feet is lightly obscured and anything beyond that is heavily obscured. You could use both depending on the time of day and the weather.   Also bear in mind that wood elves, anyone with the Skulker feat, and possibly certain kinds of monsters (nothing springs to mind but I'm sure there are some) can hide while only lightly obscured (in other words, they can use things like fog as cover, whereas most creatures can't).
(Reply to #7) KlaudisRex	pukunui wrote:
#9 akr71 Mar 24, 2015 6:40:31	I assume you are talking about sea hags?  I don't see anything in the MM that explicitely says they would not be hampered but the mists.  However, if I were running the encounter I would want them to NOT be disadvantaged.  The Scrying communal spell is a start, as is the Hag Eye - perhaps the hag eye is given to a minion that is not hampered by the fog.  A creature with excellent hearing or maybe even a quasit.  The minion can keep tabs on the party and the coven will know what is going on.
#10 KlaudisRex Mar 24, 2015 8:27:02	akr71 wrote:
#11 akr71 Mar 24, 2015 10:38:02	I think it is completely fair.  The adventurers are wandering into what amounts to the lair of the sea hags.  One would assume that they have taken steps to protect themselves from intruders.   Perhaps the coven has gotten their hands on a spell scroll or some other magic item that prevents the party from getting surprise on the coven.
#12 pukunui Mar 24, 2015 15:02:38	akr71 wrote:
#13 BRJN Mar 24, 2015 15:20:26	pukunui wrote:
#14 pukunui Mar 24, 2015 15:25:46	Those effects sound cool.   To further my idea, though, I'd make it clear that it's the coven that is the "legendary creature". Any lair actions and such would be shared between the three hags, just like their spell slots are. Defeat even one of the hags, and the coven is broken, and that's the end of the legendary stuff (lair actions, regional effects, etc). However, you wouldn't want to stop at just one hag - the survivors would want revenge, and it would be too easy for them to just find another hag with whom to restart the coven. You'd need to eliminate all three to make sure the coven (and its legendary effects) don't return.