Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Melend Jan 05, 2015 22:15:38	I know graveyards and crypts and such are obvious targets for players to have adventures in, and they're somewhat traditional.  But it's always bothered me that RPG settings didn't seem to really care about the worldbuilding, at least when it came to this matter.   In a world where bodies are potentially valuable resources to evil people, the dead can potentially come back as undead if certain (unspecified) conditions are met, and having one's corpse turned undead is somehow bad for a soul, why do people leave corpses intact and bury them in the first place?   Are there theological reasons why bodies can't be burned or chopped up or eaten?  If burial rites are necessary for a soul to 'move on', why weren't rites developed that made returning as undead impossible?  Is it only bodies that weren't 'properly' buried that are vulnerable to being raised?  The real-world traditions about the walking dead presume that it's a very rare and unusual thing, which is why those cultures developed traditions of graves and crypts and suchlike in the first place.  But that's totally not what most D&D settings are like.  So why haven't their traditions developed in accordance with the realities of their world?
#2 pukunui Jan 05, 2015 23:25:48	I had this same question myself not so long ago. Let me see if I can find the thread about it ...   EDIT: Here we go: Bring Out Your Dead. You might find the answer you seek (or one for which you didn't know you were looking) in there.
#3 bawylie Jan 05, 2015 23:28:39	That's what cemeteries and burial rites are FOR.    The idea behind deeply burying them is partly sanitary and partly so that it's too much effort to get at the body. The idea behind rituals is partly for the consolation of the grieving but also to ensure the soul's transition to the afterlife.    Desecration of a body IS bad (and the supersititious may believe it invites the departed's wrath), so the cost effective, respectful, and safest bet is to bury em deep, lock em up, and stick them under the watchful care of the local priest. Who says some prayer more or less for their souls.    In cultures who believe the dead can rise (or do for a night), it's appropriate to disguise oneself and leave offerings to placate them. Etc.
#4 Melend Jan 05, 2015 23:41:59	bawylie wrote:
#5 OrwellianHaggis Jan 06, 2015 0:14:13	Melend wrote:
(Reply to #4) Doomaflatchi	Melend wrote:
#7 EzechielDantan Jan 06, 2015 2:27:21	Melend wrote:
#8 Imaculata Jan 06, 2015 3:01:28	The thing to keep in mind here is that undead are not natural, and not common. Its not like every graveyard is a likely victim for a necromancer. Necromancy would in most settings be outlawed. And graveyards would often be on blessed ground. In fact, in my campaign most cemetaries have protective holy spells placed on them, that ward off undead and necromantic magic. So generally it is very difficult in my campaign to animate the dead from a graveyard. In my campaign, cemeteries are also guarded by paladins.   Of course it does occasionally happen that a tomb might have a curse placed upon it by some evil doer. But if it's right underneath a church, then there's an army of priests ready to sanctify the area. With so much spiritual magic about, and so many anti-undead spells, why would undead be a problem?
#9 iserith Jan 06, 2015 6:08:31	It would be a job-killer to not bury the dead in the fantasy world of D&D. Despite the risk of ghouls feeding on the flesh of the recently departed or necromancers giving foul unlife to shambling corpses, adventurers are necessary for the economy of D&D to work. And clearing out graveyards of undead is steady work.
#10 The_Angry_DM Jan 06, 2015 8:14:26	That whole "why did these traditions develop" thing is really easy to answer in the D&D universe. Remember, the gods provably exist in D&D and their instructions and the way the universe works are objective facets of reality.    The Raven Queen or Nerull or whoever your god of death du jour is passed down some specific instructions. "When people die, you have to do this, this, and this or else the cosmic machinery that gets souls to its resting place breaks down. For f$&%'s sake, don't desecrate the damned bodies. You have to keep them clean and intact and perform these rites. Or else you're condmening a soul to a fate of tortured wandering for eternity. I can't make exceptions because that's how the universe works. Sorry, kids."   Why do bodies have to be preserved? Because that's how the universe works. The tradeoff is the risk of undead and misuse. But that's like anything. Doing the right thing is generally harder and more costly than doing the wrong thing.    The dead have to preserved and protected for the same reasons that rocks and people are stuck to the ground while clouds and fire can float. And the same reason the sun and the moon orbit the Oerth. and why the stars stay fixed in the skies and why the Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia is always smack dab between the Twin Paradises of Bytopia and the Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia. Those are immutable laws of the universe.
#11 Beldak_Serpenthelm Jan 06, 2015 8:30:11	People thought that undead existed in the real world, and that didn't stop them from choosing to bury their dead instead of cremating.
#12 Illithidbix Jan 06, 2015 10:43:39	Destroying the body increases the chance of non-corporeal undead!   Better to have zombies and skeletons and ghouls than wraiths, ghosts and spectres!   (Also AFAIK burning bodies requires quite some effort (we're mostly water afterall...), you kinda need to let them dry a bit or use ALOT of fuel)
link! HoundofthePlain Jan 06, 2015 12:38:52	Well, consider that most burial rites take place on consecrated ground, such as crypts and cemeteries. The entire purpose of such practices are to honor the dead and ensure that the spirit has the best chance to reach it's destination, whether or not the belief is through burial, cremation, or mummification.   Many christian's in the past believed that if there were no remains left, then the dead wouldn't be able to return during the resurrection, hence an aversion to cremation.   Also, for those who earned the "honor", there were many ways used to make sure they couldn't rise again. Iron cages over the grave of witches were always one of my favorites.    Here's a link!
#14 OoftaMeg Jan 06, 2015 13:48:56	Because if there were no cemeteries there would be no undead. If there's no undead, you have adventurers with nothing to do. Adventurers with nothing to do will inevitably get bored. Bored adventurers become warlords. Therefore people have cemeteries to avoid warlords. :) Or that whole consecrated ground thing.
#15 cowleymen Jan 06, 2015 13:57:31	Necromancy is a very dark art, and with the exception of a few undead of spirutal type, your most common physical undead (skeletons and zombies) are created by the nefarious magic of the Dark sort, and even though as players we know it happens all the time, They are extremely rare in most game world settings. Regular folk (which your heros where before they stated adventuring) will never see one of these creatures. YMMV depending on your setting though.
#16 Melend Jan 06, 2015 17:46:51	The superstition thing seems limited to medieval Christianity, and so isn't particularly useful to D&D games.   The difficulties finding enough fuel for a proper cremation in some climates and the lack of suitable scavengers seem like excellent reasons to bury.  The real-life cultures that actually believed the dead could rise generally didn't believe that any arbitrary dead person could come back - so there would be no reason to do anything to the body.  In cases where they thought someone was coming back, they didn't hesitate to 'desecrate' it.   This thread, and the one so thoughtfully linked to above, have confirmed my suspicions that there is no rational reason for the trend from a Watsonian perspective, and most players/DMs going along out of sloth.  Thanks to all who participated.
(Reply to #16) CCS	Melend wrote:
(Reply to #16) bawylie	Melend wrote:
(Reply to #17) Melend	CCS wrote:
#20 sleypy Jan 07, 2015 5:29:24	Housing. Their like underground low income housing (low rise?). Compare how hard it is to make a pyrimad (or ziggurat)  to how hard it is to make under ground burial chambers. Its just cost effective especially the way adventures die by the cart load.