Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cyberqat Mar 26, 2015 8:58:16	Okay, In my AL game last night we had an honest to god munchkin, complete with a muchkin item.   He was playing a level 3 rogue and he had a cloak of elvinkind. He had the card for it and everything. As he presented it, and as I read the rules in the DMG to confirm, this ALWAYS passively gave him advantage to hide  and stealth roles and ALWAYS passively put anyoen else at disadvantage to perceieve him.   Is this really right?  If so, this item is *incredibly* powerful in the hands of a 5E rogue.  If its not right, what did i miss in the rules?
#2 iserith Mar 26, 2015 9:27:25	DMG pg. 158: "While you wear this cloak with its hood up, Wisdom (Perception) checks made to see you have disadvantage, and you have advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide, as the cloak's color shifts to camouflage you. Pulling the hood up or down requires an action."   The character still needs to be able to hide in the first place which requires a measure of interaction with the environment (which may not be an option) or something like an invisibility spell (which may not be available). See page 60 of the Basic Rules.   What's more, remember that for any given action, the DM decides whether it succeeds outright, fails outright, or whether it has an uncertain outcome and requires a check. Thus, you're only ever rolling the checks mentioned in the description for the cloak when the character has chosen to hide and that action has an uncertain outcome.
#3 Macv12 Mar 26, 2015 9:27:44	Those two effects should rarely stack, though. Generally in order to hide, you have to be unseen to begin with. If they're already out of sight to hide, other people aren't making Perception checks to see them, so there's that advantage gone. (Not sure exactly when that bonus would come up actually...maybe if they were standing very still in low light and trying not to be noticed. Or they're a Wood Elf hiding in light obscuration.)   But yeah, they have advantage on Stealth checks. Cool. It's actually fairly easy to get both Sneak Attack and advantage on attacks, and it's fairly easy to reliably Hide for that matter (they probably have Expertise if that's their MO), so it's not that broken.
#4 Cyberqat Mar 26, 2015 9:57:08	So, on availability of hiding.  If you are underground isnt there pretty much always shadow for a rogue to hide in?   My level 3 rogue for comaparison has a stealth check of 5.  Against a moderte difficulty (15), thats a 50% chance of faiure. (And any stealth check fails on a 20).  Rolling advantged drops that to a 25% chance.     And perception is used to counter stealth in skill v. skill situations, so the enemy being disadvantaged on that furhter aids hiding. In practice I dont think I saw a failed hide by this PC all game.
#5 Slyck314 Mar 26, 2015 9:59:31	Dim Light isn't enough to hide in . The rogue has to be in a particularly deep shadow or outside the radius of any light sources/darkvision.
#6 Coredump00 Mar 26, 2015 10:03:41	Some people play that you have to be completely behind cover in order to hide, like on the other side of a wall or something.  IMO this is due to a misreading of the word 'can' in the Hide sidebar.   If you can't 'stealth' without being completely behind a wall, it kind of really nerfs the entire concept of sneaking up on someone.
(Reply to #5) Coredump00	Slyck314 wrote:
(Reply to #4) Macv12	Cyberqat wrote:
#9 paulstrait Mar 26, 2015 11:13:32	Coredump00 wrote:
#10 Cyberqat Mar 26, 2015 11:25:59	@MacV   Yes i have proficiency in Stealth. Level 3 is a +2 proficiency bonus.  Dex of 16 is +3  Total = +5   Its irellevent anyway because the other charcetr ahs exactly the same stealth + if yo utake his cloak off.   Your point about sight is a good one, and one our Gm missed (giant weasals).  These are the sorts of limitations I was looking for.  Its still  pretty big adavantage though.   I think we need to get a lot pickier on hide and stealth situations too.  And noise is a good point. If someoen is tryng to stealth pasta  agurd, its primarily a noise issue...
#11 Cyberqat Mar 26, 2015 11:46:08	So here is an intresting question...   Rogue with  abow.  Hides, popsout and attacks. Cunning action allows hide as a bonus action. Can he or she return to the same hiding spot?  It seems the enemy would know attacks were comign from there.   Edit; A friend fo mine pointed me to the sidebar on PHB 177 which gves some direction on this.
(Reply to #9) Coredump00	paulstrait wrote:
(Reply to #11) Coredump00	Cyberqat wrote:
#14 abs1nth Mar 27, 2015 2:28:51	Balance is really a relative thing with magic items. The higher level you are, the less broken an item becomes. For a lvl 3 rogue, I feel I can safely say: YES! I'll probably housrule the cloak to only add disadvantage to perception checks made against you, so that you can still benefit from advantage on stealth check due to the situation or clever play.   Edit: You might be interested in my hiding houserules for a better stealth combat experience: LINK.
#15 Psikerlord Mar 28, 2015 3:18:34	Cyberqat wrote:
#16 Psikerlord Mar 28, 2015 3:20:47	Cyberqat wrote: