So before the movie Jurrasic World came out, I was inspired by the trailers to start a campaign with my players where time portals keep opening up and releasing dinosaurs to their world. They have been trying to find the source of these portals and stop it. (side note: I'm not sure what that will be yet, but I'm confident I will be able to figure that out as they get further into it.)
Heres the problem though: One of the players is a beast master ranger, and he watched the movie this past weekend. In our last session he kept refusing to fight the dinosaurs and tried to tame them. While Im not opposed to that by itself, he has been getting upset that its so difficult for him. He thinks that since he is a beast master that he can just roll an animal handling check and be able to tame one. I think that these would be 1) nearly impossible to capture without planning ahead with cages, sleep potions (tranquilizers) and specially made restraints, and 2) it would take months or years to tame seeing that they are carnivors and they would constantly want to eat you! I have tried explaining this to him, but everytime a portal appears and dinosaurs come out he immediatly says "I try to sense if any of the dinosaurs will be tameable." and then gets upset when I say no they are not even when he rolls something higher than a 20.
Am I correct in continuing to handle it this way, or should I give in and let him "tame" one of the dinosaurs mid-battle for the sake of keeping my player happy and having it be fun for him?
Not all dinosaurs were carnivores. You could let him tame one of the herbivorous ones (like a maiasaur or something).
1. If the answer to the player's proposed action is an unequivocal "no", stop making them roll the dice. That'll solve one of your problems.
2. What's the PC's goal? To get one as an animal companion? To just calm one down so it doesn't attack?
3. Do any of the dinos fall under the Beastmaster's restrictions for their animal companion? If not, easy answer there.
4. Why are they even attacking? Surely they could find easier prey to eat than creatures throwing fireballs at them, right? These are animals we're talking about here.
5. If all else fails, reiterate that Starlord had to imprint on the raptors at birth. Even the other trainer that had a good rapport (proficiency with Animal Handling) with them got taken out because he wansn't their "alpha".
I think it’s perfectly fine to rule that a simple, single roll isn’t enough to succeed at taming a dinosaur, especially in mid-battle. That being said, maybe the roll could give the PC insight into what would be necessary, unless you're completely opposed to the PCs getting a dinosaur mount.
For a while, some of my players went through a phase of trying to tame every single mount-like creature they encountered, including a Behir. That got annoying really quickly.
Remind him that the only reason the character in the movie had any success with the raptors was because he had raise them from hatchlings. Even then when a new alpha came along, he still failed his first handle animal check.
So if he can find eggs and then spend a period of time (a couple of years?) raising them, then yes perhaps he can have a dino companion.
A skill does not give him automatic "charm animal".
It might be a good idea for an NPC BM with a raptor AC suggest a procedure to capture/train a raptor (assuming it is appropriate for the ranger to have one as an AC) to the player's BM. I find that if the player knows there are steps (even if they are hard steps that might take a couple of levels) to acheive an end, they are usually good with it.
That makes more sense for me to say he cant roll for that since the outcome is determined. That part was definatley my mistake now that I think about it.
The dinosaurs in the MM are all higher challenge rating for them to be his animal companion, but I found a velociraptor online that is a 1/4 CR. So he has been trying to get that to be his animal companion.
As far as their motive, I have been going on the premis that they were just transported from their dinosaur age to suddenly being in a desert surrounded by the PCs so they are attacking more out of fear than anything else.
This is almost exactly like the PC's always trying to tame a mount like ralif_redhammer said. Its not that I'm saying it cant happen, its just frusterating when it happens every time.
I forgot about the character imprinting on them from birth! Next time I could say that he realizes these arent going to be tamed unless he is able to be with them from birth. Then that could spawn a dino egg hunt quest!
Also, Jurrasic World didnt actually "Ruin" my campaign, I just wrote the title like that because it made me chuckle.
While of course a player should not make demands on what he can do in your campaign, perhaps it can be an inspiration? In the end you want everyone to have fun, so maybe taming a dino could be a cool quest that you could provide the player with? If that is what he wants to do, then why not? Provide an opportunity for him to do so.
You should check out the british TV show Primeval.
An animal's (humans included) first instinct to fear is flight, not fight. Unless there's nowhere to run. Plenty of running to be done in a desert.
The big questions that need to be answered are. Why are you even having these encounters? Do they answer the dramatic question, which by far as I can tell is, "can the PCs stop these portals?" Do you have an inherent problem with the Ranger having a dino companion? You can't give a player an ambiguous choice, and expect them to go one way, especially when all evidence points the the contrary. That's just insanity.
Imaculata wrote:
So...did the player start the campaign as a beast master, or roll one mid-game? Is he at least a level 3 beast master now? Does he already have a different beast? Did he get to level 2 planning to go Hunter, then decide to go Beast Master instead after seeing the movie?
If you're to be denying the opportunity to use a class feature he already has by not letting him get a cool companion that he wants, I can understand him being miffed. I would not much like being sent on a quest to find a dinosaur egg, steal it, hatch it, raise it to a viable age, then finally use it as a companion, when I've had that class feature burning a hole in my character sheet for the past 10 sessions. It would be a neat extra for a non-beast-master, but when that's your whole MO, it's not fun to be waiting that long just to use it.
I could see finding an injured dino somewhere, helping it, asserting dominance somehow like with a dog, and training it over time. Let the class features come online pretty quick, but roleplay the dino as skittish or unruly at times, or ask for Aninal Handling checks if the master asks it to do something especially dangerous, until their bond is stronger.
Agreed that he shouldn't just say "my character Animal Handles. Dice roll 18." Mind-controlling a beast mid-combat is a bit much. (Of course, he could spend a couple slots on Animal Friendship and Speak with Animals; not sure why he hasn't leveraged those in his efforts.)
Agreed that the BM shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get an appropriate dino companion. You wouldn't make them do it to get a wolf, would you?
What does whoever's opening the portals want with a prehistoric world? It can't be just to let dinos out for mayhem. Someone with that sort of power could cause a lot more destruction than some overgrown lizards.
Check the raptor thread. It has the stats for a young one that should work good as a animal companion.
Hoprc91 wrote:
You can use downtime to have him train animals. Let the players bank downtime as a reward and spend it as they choose. He can spend his training up a new companion.
Its not instantaneous but not impossible. He has to trap one and then spend time and resources.
I'm kind of confused as to why your player believes that being able to "tame" an animal in combat is something that Beastmaster rangers should be able to do. Is he assuming that a Beastmaster Ranger works like a World of Warcraft Hunter?
That said, he should be *absolutely* able to cast Animal Friendship on a dinosaur.
It's quite a leap to go from "I have a wolf companion" to "All wolves are my companions".
Getting an appropriate level dino companion as a goal is fine, until then just remind him what happened to Hoskins when he tried to pull off Pratt's move.
Hoprc91 wrote:
So the players handbook says:
"If the beast dies, you can obtain another one by spending 8 hours magically bonding with another beast that isnt hostile to you, either the same type of beast as before or a different one."
So If I'm understanding this and everyone on here correctly, as long as his current animal companion (a panther from the forrest he grew up in) is still alive, he cannot have the dinosaur because he can only be bonded to one animal at a time. BUT! if it dies, he can cast animal friendship (assuming the dino fails the save) then spend 8 hours to bond with it (arcana check?) and he can then the dino will fight as his animal companion.
Mechatarrasque wrote:
Hoprc91 wrote:
Just an offering of how I would handle it if it came up in a campaign of mine. 
Full grown adult dinosaur? No...
Halfway grown to full adult size? Not likely, but maybe depending on the particular type of dinosaur (i.e. herbivore versus more aggressive carnivore)...
One hatched from an egg by the character? Nice odds for it working...
One that has already hatched or still really young? Still very doable with a little work...
dinosaurs are animals. beast masters control animals. their only restriction is limitations based on Challenge rating, intelligence, or similar functional aspects. The fact that they seem unusual shouldn't apply. the companion restrictions are way outside dinosaurs. 1/4 challenge rating and medium? most horses are large. if the dinosaurs are 1/4 or less CR, it doesnt matter. Didnt a bunch of them have like, a 7 or better intelligence? that also causes animal friendship to fail.
shintashi wrote:
Dinosaurs are just birds. Minus several million years of evolution.
Furthermore, if the kind of dinosaur in question is a pack-type (i.e. velicioraptor) then it wouldn't be terribly hard to tame a baby one if you somehow got it alone, but adult ones are going to be running together and that will make it quite difficult...
HOWEVER, if you can establish dominance over the pack, they are likely to leave you alone.
Where does this idea come from that carnivores are going to constantly go after a target that is capable of harming it? That is utter nonsense! Carnivores livelihood depends on never getting harmed in anyway just as much, if not more, than herbivores do. Predators back down once confronted with any real harm and only go after the weakest and most vulnerable of prey.
But that is just standard anyone taming it.
We are talking about magical Ranger taming that can work on fully-grown leopards and wolfs. A dinosaur is not beyond those bounds at all.
Tell your player that you are working on a way to tame a Dinosaur Companion. In the meanwhile, he should quit rolling Handle Animal checks every time one crosses the horizon.
Next step: Since it is silly to tame an adult, they have to find a youngling. So somebody will have to step into a portal and explore the other side.
Eventually (roll Nature checks) they find some clues and ideas that might be written up in a notebook for future study / pondering.
As noted upthread, introduce somebody who can provide guidance to the Ranger.
If you are making progress towards the character's goal, then playing a bit of D&D along the way won't seem like such a torment.
P.S. When figuring out how to close down the portals, do not forget to plant a prophecy to the tune of "A child of the old world and a child of the new must work together to set the worlds in right alignment" !
P.P.S. At one game I played, our INT 8 Druid cast Animal Friendship on a Wolf and the two spent the whole fight tickling each others' tummies. The rest of us did not mind because he DID take a big bruiser out of the fray. Encourage your Ranger to think of clever fun stuff to do with his other abilities in the meantime.
I agree that taming a raptor should be much more complicated than a single die roll, but don't forget Rule #0. The aim of the game is to have fun. As a DM your job is also to take cues from the PCs as to what they want. It's not just the DMs story, it's also the players. If all the PC wants is a dinosaur companion and if there is no harm in doing so, give the player his wish, let him tame a dino as his companion. That's a remarkably cool thing for the the player to talk about when the campaign is over "remember that time I tamed a dinosaur as my animal companion?". If you're concerned about the CR of the dino, then give him a baby raptor and stat it out like something he can already already tame.
That is exactly what I meant to say as well Glimjack. Both the Players and the DM make the story together. I don't think a DM should ignore it when players clearly indicate what they'd enjoy doing in his campaign. Taiming a dinosaur is not an unreasonable request in a campaign that features lots of dinosaurs. Embrace it, use it, let it fuel your story.
I think there's more-or-less a consensus here: dino companion ok, trying to tame every dino you run across is probably not going to happen. The mechanics to get the companion are left up to the DM unless I'm missing something.
However on a tangent,
OoftaMeg wrote:
This is a general difference between movie/RPG creatures and real world creatures. Wolves are a go-to encounter/enemy in games and fantasy novels, but rarely if ever attack humans in real life.
It's one of humanity's little ironies that despite being omnivorous beings ourselves, we none the less seem to assume that all other carnivores are motivated by malice.
Mechatarrasque wrote:
Why does he want to do it? Because its awesome.
The "Nature guy who is so one with animals he can make them his friend/partner immediatley" thing is super common in fantasy. The party treks through the woods and out jumps a giant monster. The ranger steps forward arms out and low to the ground. "Easy boy". Next scene, the party is riding on the back of this giant monster to their destination crashing through the woods.
This is 4e so...
Give him one as a companion at the approperiate level, and make him ditch his other one. Then, treat the others as mounts, and instead of buying them, just give them for free if he can find them. Say it takes a DC 10+CR check to make them not attack. A DC 15+CR means they will follow you to camp. Make another DC 15+CR Check and you can spend a week of downtime "breaking" them and now you've got a mount. Look to equivilent gold costed mounts, and pull it out of some treasure on the back end. Play with your CRs so he can pass the "don't fight us" 75% of the time at equal level monsters and the "Follow to camp" DC 50% of the time.
Some monsters get bonuses, especially if they are hunting the PCs. Maybe +5 to the DC for carnivores or something.
LordCorwin wrote:
Hoprc91 wrote:
BRJN wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
Animal Friendship and Speak with Animals is how the Beast Master goes about getting there animal companion in the first place anyways. The beast can't be hostile toward you and you need to spend 8 hour bonding with it. Gonna be tough to do that without communication and the animal trying to fight or run away from you. Once you've calmed it, so it doesn't immediately bolt or try and fight, you can talk to it to see if it'll agree to accompany you. If so, you spend the next 8 hours bonding with it. No Ranger can force an animal to become it's companion. The animal has to be willing for the bond of trust to be there.
Here's what I'd do. Stage an encounter that has a wounded young captured raptor with the captors finishing off the adults as the party gets there. The PCs have a chance to save the raptor and the Ranger has an opportunity for their dino companion.
The only dinosaur in the MM that he can get (if you stick to RAW) is the Pteranadon. That's a pretty cool companion though as it has the flyby ability. It's basically just a super beefy owl. Is he small? If he is then he'd also be able to ride it!
