Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Xeviat-DM May 17, 2015 15:21:30	So, Magic item progression doesn't seem to be fully coded into the basic math of the game this time around like it was in 4E and 3E. I'm not saying that the books don't seem to assume you'll get magic items, but they definitely aren't assuming that you'll get specific magic items. I draw a lot of these conclusions from the CR calculator and it's impact on monster math.   In 4E, monster attack, AC, and defenses increased at a rate of +1/level. Their HP increased by +8 per level. Player attacks and defenses scaled at a rate of +1/2 per level; they also got ability score increases every 4 levels, and magic items. Magic items (and a few feats) were required for players to scale liniarly along with the monsters, which was very important in 4E as the standard encounter model was 4 pcs vs 4 monsters of the same level.   In 5E, monster attack and AC scale, but slowly. Player attack scales slowly, and their AC barely scales at all. Monster AC scales almost exactly with player attack (scaling at the same levels as 4 and 8th level ability score adjustmenets and proficiency bonuses, except one +1 is gained at 10th level instead of 9th level). Monster Attack, though, scales much faster than player AC (even monks and barbarians). I'm trying to just accept this as part of the game, to make high level fights play differently than low level fights. It could also exist to balance out the fact that many classes have ACs that start very high.   But what do you do when you start giving out magic items to your players, especially enhanced weapons and armor? Fights will start getting easier; how much tougher of a fight can they handle now? Well, I think the CR calculator has some suggestions that can be of help to us.   Remember, every bonus granted to a PC could be considered a penalty to the NPCs they fight. Lets see how this could be analyzed. Monster CR is an average of their Offensive CR and Defensive CR. Getting a -2 Attack or a -2 AC is a 1 penalty to their Offensive or Defensive CR. Thus, a -4 AC by itself would reduce total CR by 1, as would a -4 Attack by itself.   Alternately, you could look at how a monster would be changed by having the magic item itself. Getting a +2 suit of armor would boost a monster's Defensive CR by 1; getting both +2 armor and a +2 weapon would increase it's total CR by 1 (the damage gained from a magic weapon will rarely affect its offensive CR directly, as each level is +6 damage, and thus it is only increased if the monster has enough attacks with the weapon).   So, what does this mean for players? Well, every +1 of armor/weapon bonuses they have decreases their opponent's challenge level by 1/4th. This isn't much, but by the time your players have a +2 weapon and +2 armor they can fight opponents 1 CR higher than them without feeling it. Fully decked out in legendary +4s, they could fight 2 CRs higher than them, which could help them get closer to the dreaded CR 24s!   Of course, this can be skewed. Magic weapons benefit the fighter really quickly. Also, CR is just a guideline, I'm aware, but some DMs (like me!) love their guidelines.   What are your thoughts? Are you worried about handing out magic items? Do you think the difference between a hard and a medium encounter is too small for you to care about the chance of fights getting too easy or overestimaging and tossing in a fight that's too hard?
#2 Ralif_Redhammer May 18, 2015 8:01:52	I definitely worry about balancing the number of magic items that I hand out – despite decades of DMing, I still struggle to hit that sweet spot of matching progression of the PCs and magic items to the challenges faced.   So far, I haven’t had trouble with magic items unbalancing the current campaign, but I’ve been really paying attention to the PCs’ strengths and weaknesses. And fighters will run out of superiority dice and spellcasters run out of spells, with or without magic items.
#3 Cooperjera May 18, 2015 12:30:05	I also look at how the magic items affect the effective CR of the players characters.  It's difficult to balance some aspects of the combat portion of the game with respect to how powerful any given character is.  Wizards and Sorcerers can be much more powerful than others, depending on how the players use the character and how often long rests occur.   I try to get an effective CR for the group to use when building encounters.  I also use historical experience to determine if an encounter will be difficult or not too difficult.  Also, during the encounter I'll scale back the HP of the NPCs depending on the way the encounter is going and how confident the players are in succeeding.  I have yet to increase HP of any NPC to extend an encounter.
#4 UngeheuerLich May 22, 2015 6:48:59	Just don´t worry too much. We are speaking about +1 to +3 differences.   Just remember to actually let the enemies use their magic items, so that the adventurers have to earn them. Also use sizes for armors at least. Whis way, the pc´s have to spend resources to make them fit.
#5 durntaur May 22, 2015 8:45:03	UngeheuerLich wrote: