Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Fiend-Factory Aug 11, 2015 10:19:06	So, a villain in my current game just made his first appearance: a Mind Flayer. The party, having been weakened by waves of mooks, were ambushed by this Mind Flayer mid-combat, who opened up with a Mind Blast, catching the entire party, and many of his own slaves in the effect. Of the 7 5th level characters, 2 went unconscious immediately, and one was left stunned. It was a terrifying entrance , with players swearing that it was about to be a TPK. Within one round, the 3 characters who made attacks, (one went off to heal a downed player)  had dropped the mind flayer to 1/3 of his hp, leaving him no choice but to plane shift away. Though this certainly made an impact, it made me realize that if he is exposed to combat for even one round, he will get utterly shredded.  How would you go about building him up as a credible threat in the future, when he is so vulnerable to even moderate attack? Particularly if the players make a few levels before their next encounter with it.
#2 Ralif_Redhammer Aug 11, 2015 11:11:02	The Mind Flayer’s a weird monster to use. If the dice were to have favored it, yeah, it could’ve been a TPK, with that nasty consume brain ability. But if the dice don’t favor it, then it’s not going to be super-effective on its own.   The DMG’s rules for increasing the CR of monsters would definitely apply, as would some of the quick and easy templates therein as well.    Another approach is to look at how you build the encounter. Using a stealth approach with additional monsters that can blind or create magical darkness would help. Set the battlefield so that the Mind Flayer can duck away or get cover easily, so it's more of a guerilla battle than a straightforward fight. Another option is to have brutes that the Mind Flayer can send in after the mind blast (or that are immune to it in the first place). Mooks are great for wearing PCs down, but if you want to avoid the Mind Flayer getting turned into calamari, you want to have monsters that pose enough of a threat in their own right.
#3 shintashi Aug 11, 2015 13:32:56	make the mindflayer an NPC wizard/character type. Give them Divination or Luck so they can manipulate dice a couple of times. Add +2 to their CR for XP calculations. Give them a 14th level Warlock Lover with a Thralled Gladiator wearing Armor of Invulnerability. Now you have an encounter worth roughly 10-20,000 xp. Give them a Spelljamming Ship under a massive cloak/invisibility spell with a space pirate crew or a pile of mind zombie slaves, maybe a neurotic aboleth in the belly of the ship with its own psychic linked zombies and the aboleth powers the ship, so the Mind Flayer finds adventuring parties and feeds them to the aboleth in a similar way to getting a refill at the gas pump. Maybe the Mind Flayer is a minor villain, and actually works for some super evil badass out in deep space, and the world where the PCs are just happens to be a pit stop. Now you have a CR 20 encounter with a CR25-30 Armada/villain looming in the background...
#4 Mad_Jack Aug 11, 2015 19:59:34	Mindflayers are creatures with a completely alien genius intellect. They should have contingency plans stacked like cordwood and minions stacked on minions that they have no problem sacrificing to wear the party down.  If you want it to remain a recurring villain, the 'flayer should never stick around long enough to get into a potentially lethal physical combat situation with the party, especially now that it knows their capabilities. The 'flayer should be acting behind the scenes and through it's minions, stepping out from behind the curtain just long enough to gloat a bit and fire off a few shots at the adventurers before retreating to let it's minions do it's fighting for it. In actual combat, it should be employing hit-and-run skirmishing tactics and bugging out before the players get its hit points down too low - if they even get a chance to do so. Plane shifting should be a tactical choice rather than an escape plan. On a larger scale, beyond just the possibility of ambushes, clever traps and minions when the party wanders into it's lair, consider the possibility of the 'flayer making proactive plans against the party - and not just attacking them physically, but through manipulating npcs, set-ups, betrayals, contacting the party's other enemies and letting them know where the party can be found, hiring people to go after them... Mindflayers aren't just dangerous because of what they can do in combat.   On a more tangible note, if there's a chance the 'flayer could be getting in range of attacks from the PCs, make sure that it has access to healing magic, regeneration or other item designed to make it harder to kill with physical damage.   Do keep in mind though, that physical damage has always been the mindflayer's one major weakness, and if the party does get close enough to focus fire on it with physical damage for more than a round or two, it should go down like a chump.
#5 Ralif_Redhammer Aug 12, 2015 7:32:14	Absolutely right. To really turn a monster into a villain, the monster needs to be smart – it needs to have plans and an agenda. The PCs have to feel threatened, so that when they do defeat the villain, it feels that much more exhilarating.    Mad_Jack wrote:
(Reply to #4) OoftaMeg	Mad_Jack wrote:
#7 bawylie Aug 12, 2015 9:41:50	Monkeying with stats to increase the mechanical difficulty of a challenge does not make a villain - it makes a harder challenge.    Is that what you really want?   Or do you want a villain?    Or both?   Villainy is an art form. So is difficulty.  But they work in different mediums.
#8 Clutchbone Aug 12, 2015 13:31:20	Seven 5th level characters? Against one CR 7 monster? Of course it almost died!   No matter how many waves of minions there were in that fight, a mind flayer only has 71 HP and 15 AC. Assuming a 5th level PC will have no problem doing ~16 damage per round with a +6 or +7 attack bonus, you're lucky only 3 PCs attacked it.    Anyways, you've already stated that the mind flayer freaked out your players, even if it's appearance was brief. Here are 3 ways to pump up that tension.   1. More mind flayers! Picture it: you set it up so they have an easy time tracking, ambushing, and (unless they roll terribly) dropping the mind flayer in the surprise round... but then 2 more step out of the shadows!  (two mind flayers vs seven 5th level pcs is a "hard" encounter. Later on, three mind flayers vs seven 7th level pcs is a "deadly" encounter).    2. Use the Mind Flayer Arcanist variant in the MM (same page as basic mind flayer). It has defensive options like shield, blur, and invisibility to keep it alive longer, and your players won't expect it.   3. A Githyanki Knight (CR 8) and some warriors (CR 3) come to "cleanse" the players, thinking them tainted by the mind flayer's influence.   4. Have the mind flayer actually be a pawn of an aboleth (CR 10). With 7 players, the aboleth's Enslave 3/day ability isn't so scary at all, so you can probably give it a few beefy minions.   5. Give it a magic item, like a potion of invulnerability or +1 adamantine breastplate.   6. Always have it plane shift on it's first or second turn, but make sure you leave clues for the players to follow and plan for if they still manage to kill it.
#9 Fiend-Factory Aug 12, 2015 14:30:03	Good stuff all around. I might give him a few levels in wizard or use the arcanist variant, just for a bit of defensive magic, and battlefield manipulation. Illusory duplicates, and spells like blur to dissuade our ranged characters from bombing him out the split second a tentacle comes into view. The players are good with prioritizing targets and will hit him hard the second he appears. I can use that to his advantage, using low level illusions to harmlessly draw out the powerful spells and effects. Being telepathic, he can give more credibility to an illusory mind flayer on the approach. Likewise, I love the idea of a team of thralls, potentially more physically powerful than the mind flayer itself, that potentially pose a much greater immediate threat.   Some potion use would also do wonders in increasing his longevity, particularly if he is to be a bit more elusive. A few magic items also make nice rewards when they finally take him down. When the players finally corner him, he should go down but I want him to drag it out as long as possible. He is the short term villain, so he should only be around for 3-5 sessions. Definitely lots to work with here!
(Reply to #8) dave2008	Clutchbone wrote: