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| #1pukunuiSep 16, 2014 15:30:52 | Hi guys,
As you may know, I'm running Legacy of the Crystal Shard (updated/upgraded for six 3rd-5th level 5e PCs) for my group.
One of the plot threads in the adventure involves a middling member of Luskan's Arcane Brotherhood plotting to take over Icewind Dale via extortion and trickery. Part of his plot involves pretending to be the town speaker's buddy to her face while stirring up opposition to her leadership behind her back. He's got a group of Luskan pirates - some of whom are wererats - doing his dirty work for him. His plan, should the PCs not interfere, is to kidnap the speaker on the day she intends to deliver a speech to pacify her opponents and then get himself elected in her place when she doesn't show up.
However, as I discovered last session, there is a major flaw in this part of the adventure. Namely, the PCs have the opportunity to find a note from the wizard to the leader of his pirate cronies outlining his plan to overthrow the speaker. It is signed with the wizard's arcane mark. The adventure assumes the PCs won't figure out that the arcane mark belongs to the wizard until the denouement, giving the wizard time to go through with his plan to kidnap the speaker.
Unfortunately, as soon as my players found the note, they took it straight to the speaker. I could find no reason why she would not recognize the wizard's arcane mark, since he has been pretending to be her ally. Plus, the adventure even states that he publically displays his arcane mark on the door of his office in the town. The trouble is: they are still several days out from the scheduled town meeting at which this plot thread is supposed to reach its climax.
I had the speaker decide not to make an overt move against the wizard just yet, but the PCs decided to stake out his office to see what he does next. The wizard, however, may well know that the game is up because the PCs have put the word out that they have given a crate of silvered weapons to the town guard ~ although their stated motivation for doing so was merely to save the warehouse in which the crate had been stored from being burned down by the thugs.
I have a couple of ideas on how to proceed:
1) I can have the speaker call off the PCs' stakeout after changing her mind and deciding to confront the wizard directly. She can invite them to the meeting in her office, where she will show the wizard the note and tell him that the PCs brought it to her. He can then profess his innocence and attempt to convice her (and the PCs) that he's been set up - after all, if his arcane mark is displayed publically, then anyone could come along and forge his signature to implicate him (anyone well-versed in magic at least). If he is successful, this could put both the PCs and the speaker off the scent, thus allowing the wizard's plans to proceed unaffected.
2) The PCs have other threads to investigate in the adventure, including a trip onto the tundra to help out the Elk Tribe. I could push them in that direction, and the wizard could then proceed with his plans in their absence (convincing the speaker that he has been set up while the PCs aren't there to put a spanner in the works). One way to do this might be to have the optional cult assassins attack the PCs while they are on their stakeout as retribution for freeing their "sacrifice" to Auril (a barbarian who'd been sentenced to death by exposure after being falsely accused of stealing from a cult member). The wizard might also put his own plans into motion to drive the PCs out of town somehow.
3) I could also let the PCs "win" this one early. The trouble with doing that is that it might give them enough time to "win" the adventure's other two plot threads too, and the whole point of the adventure is that they can't "win them all". That being said, I don't want to punish my players for taking a perfectly reasonable course of action just because the adventure fails to take it into account. They weren't deliberately trying to exploit a loophole or anything.
Anyone got any thoughts on this? What what you do if your players had put you in a similar situation?
Thanks in advance, Jonathan |
| #2CentauriSep 16, 2014 15:57:08 |
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| #3pukunuiSep 16, 2014 16:12:31 |
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| #4CentauriSep 16, 2014 16:30:15 |
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| #5EndarrionSep 16, 2014 17:17:38 | What if the wizard can convince the speaker that the PCs forged the letter and are nefarious agents come to wreak havoc? |
| #6pukunuiSep 16, 2014 17:23:45 |
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| #7pukunuiSep 16, 2014 17:37:11 |
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| #8CentauriSep 16, 2014 17:40:42 |
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| #9pukunuiSep 16, 2014 17:58:54 |
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| #10NoonSep 16, 2014 18:03:25 |
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| #11pukunuiSep 16, 2014 18:08:50 |
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| #12AnsbachSep 16, 2014 18:23:18 | Here's a few things that pop out:
So by extention the adventure could go in a couple of directions:
As far as the stakeout goes - does the wizard even do anything suspicious? Maybe the plans are already in place and the stakeout is a dead end. If he does do something, maybe it leads to #2 above. If he knows he's being watched, maybe it turns into a cat and mouse of trying to catch him talking to the pirates. Or an encounter where he is trying to lose his tail, i.e. the players.
Just a few random ideas. |
| #13ShiroikenSep 16, 2014 18:40:50 |
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| #14KishriSep 16, 2014 18:49:08 | I want to say that if #3 occurs, which looks like the most logical conclusion, that it doesn't have to be an auto win for the PCs down the line. Sure, the party wins this round and thwarts the plans, but that doesn't mean that the bad guys can't change up their tactics and plans accordingly. Sounds like these wizards are smart hombres and I am sure they will figure something out.
One thing you could do, should this turn of events result in "solving part of the adventure" too soon, as in the party won't have the power and levels to succeed in the next part because the adventure "assumes" the party will be a higher level before they thwart/solve the issue, is to use this event as a segway to a mini adventure that will tie back in to the main gist of your original adventure down the line. The party most surely has just made enemies of some powerful folks. There are tons of short adventures out there dealing with just this case, where a party is up against a cabal of evil spellcasters. Simply splice one of those adventures into the one you are currently running.
Or, you could do what I would do-- wing it-- reacting to the players' actions as the NPCs would. Then look for ways to tie the current events back into the original adventure, if you desire, but don't force it. This could be a chance to let this transition from "running an adventure module" to truly being yours and the players' campaign.
The party used their brains and 'won" this part of the adventure, so reward them by letting them take the adventure by horns, so to speak. They are now in charge. The party will call the shots and dictate events by their in play actions. You, the DM, simply have things react by the adventure's and settings parameters. I think you will find that you and your players will have a lot more fun, especially down the line. |
| #15NoonSep 16, 2014 19:07:24 |
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| (Reply to #15)Whir |
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| #17iserithSep 16, 2014 19:28:00 | I haven't read the adventure, but based on what you've established, I think the wizard either makes a move against the PCs or, preferably, the town speaker before the day of the speech. They've essentially forced his hand.
Since the PCs are staking him out and waiting for him to make that move, there needs to be a distraction set up by the wizard - perhaps he whips up the opposition into doing something disruptive in town that only adventurers might be able to resolve or has his wererats create a problem that ostensibly points to another quest like this Elk Tribe or whatever. While the PCs are looking the other way, he takes the speaker and sets about discrediting the PCs or getting some kind of leverage on them. If he can create opposition to the town speaker who is an established person in town, why couldn't he raise a mob to deal with these outsiders as well? If he can get leverage on them, he can try to cut a deal with them for their mutual benefit.
This is what a smart villain would do and wizards are typically smart. It's all misdirection and leverage. |
| #18pukunuiSep 16, 2014 20:08:37 | OK, here's the thing: We'll be starting the next session late on Day 2. It will have only been a few hours since the PCs showed the note they found to the speaker. After talking with her, they went and delivered the crate of silvered weapons to the town guard and then "put the word out" that the guard had them so the wererats would know.
It's reasonable that the wizard will have found out about the silvered weapons, but I'm not sure there's been enough time for him to learn that the speaker now has evidence against him. I suppose I could say he planted some kind of magical bug in the speaker's office and therefore has heard the PCs' conversation with her, but that seems a bit too contrived.
As I mentioned above, there are cultists in town that are going to want to get revenge on the PCs for thwarting their sacrifice to Auril, the goddess of winter. The question is just: should I have their assassination attempt interrupt the PCs' stakeout of the wizard's office, or should I let them go ahead with it? And if the latter, what should I let them discover? Should I let them catch the wizard redhanded - perhaps writing another incriminating letter or even meeting with one of the wererats in person? The module does state that he won't attack the PCs; if they attack him, he flees to a public place so he can play the part of the innocent victim in front of witnesses.
If I can get the players to go ahead with their plan to head out onto the tundra the following in-game day, then I needn't worry about all this because I can say the wizard manages to smooth things over with the speaker while the PCs are out of town. The problem is: they aren't going to leave town before they attempt their little stakeout, so I need to figure that bit out first since it's not something covered in the module. |
| #19grendel111111Sep 16, 2014 20:49:47 |
The players gave siler weapons ot the guard. Is this because they susspect wererats are involved During the stake out have the wizard talking to someone in his house. The man is big and burley. (but they never saw the man enter the wizards house). Soon the wizard makes a breif apperance at the door and throws a big of rubbish into the street. As it hits the ground 4 rats scatter out of the bag and head down the street in different dirrections. (do they follow them? which ones do they follow? do they split up or stay together) The largest rat is the were rat and heads back to the ship, leading to more clues as to what is going on. Or they bust into the meeting to see the man run for a corner and change into a rat as he dives for a hole in the floor boards. The key to mystery is know what will happen if there is no interference, then when the characters get in the way, look at the personality of those involved to see how the situation develops organically.
Does the wizard move the plan forward, how does he contact the boat. Is he unaware of the interference and so the plan keeps going as he wants? Does he panic and abandon the plan for a more direct solution. In a mystery, the characters can discover it at any point of the game, you don't have to force them to only find it at the "end", The written "end point" (if there is one) is just a back stop in case the players fail to stop it before then. You know his plans, just follow through with them to the best of his abilities. Discreditting the PC's is definately something he would try and is a great idea. He could bring out the poor victims of the PC's (who are over playing their injuries) and whip the villagers into a frenzy demanding the characters are removed from town. If he can get the city guard to ban them from the city his plan is half way back to being on track. Also relying on teh speaker to back them up right before an election means she may not be willing to put her head on the block for them. The fact that it is OK for them to fail to finish all the things going on makes this a very interesting twist. Do they sneak back into town, follow other agendas while not allowed in town? While they are not in town all teh town event keep happening and they may return to a very different place.
Finally this stupid idea that D and D can't hold mystery needs to stop. In certain play styles it doesn't work, but that does not mean that everyone has to abbandon an enjoyable part of the game just because a few people reject it. There are many kinds of mysteries that create interesting and engaging adventures, just because it isn't hack and slash does not mean it does not have a place in D and D. |
| #20pukunuiSep 16, 2014 22:22:58 |
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| #21neurotic-nachosSep 16, 2014 22:27:39 | I hate getting stuck in that situation.
One of your proposed solutions was that the wizard is being set up. He could be a willing patsy with otders to distract others and the letter was meant to be found to throw off the identities of the true kidnappers and their intentions. Or he could be a dupe that is actually being framed for something he really had no part in, but with the same intentions. If your players ask, just tell them that they beat the encounter that they got the letter from and it was purposely entrusted to someone that was expendable enough that his death was of no real consequence. In this case, the real kidnappers will stilll go ahead with a slightly altered version of thie plan. As it happens, the Speaker wants to make sure that her "friend" is genuine because there's no sense in blaming an innocent man for something he didn't do. About the time that the kidnapping is supposed to take place, the Speaker finally gets the damning evdence that shee needs to swear out an arrest for the wizard and asks that the PCs accompany her men to make the arrest.
With the characters out of the way, the kidnapping foes off without a hitch and as your group is making the arrest, the true culprit |
| #22pukunuiSep 16, 2014 23:04:52 |
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| #23BoldItalicSep 17, 2014 1:51:23 | Would this work?
The speaker disappears (of her own volition) and neither the PCs nor the Wizard know where she has gone. She intends to return just in time to make the speech, accompanied by a posse of town guards.
The PCs suspect the Wizard of having kidnapped her already and the Wizard publically accuses the PCs of having done it.
Any good? |
| #24pukunuiSep 17, 2014 2:07:54 | Maybe. I'm not really sure why she'd do that, though.
Just looking over the adventure again and I see something else I could use: it says that on the 26th (which is the current in-game day), the wizard sends one of his agents to infiltrate a group of newly-established pirates preying on the fishing vessels of the easternmost towns (one of the main events of Act 2). Maybe during the PCs' stakeout, they could see the wizard talking to this agent and sending him on his way. |
| #25NoonSep 17, 2014 2:34:16 |
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| #26pukunuiSep 17, 2014 2:41:01 |
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| #27RamzourSep 17, 2014 5:07:09 | So, I haven't read through the thread, but here are my opinions based on your OP.
1) Don't try to push the players into the sidetreks. It sounds like they wouldn't take the bait anyway, so you'll just end up frustrating yourself, them, or both.
2) Always reward clever thinking, even if it unravels our precious DM plans. It's natural to want to "win" against the players. You put a lot of effort into the preparation, after all, and you want to see the story come out how you envisioned it. Also, you have the benefit of seeing the whole story from an omniscient POV, while the players are only living in the moment. No story or plot is immune to being thrown off course by the players. I think all DMs suffer from this from time to time, but the best thing to do is to roll WITH it, not against it. You've got to think on your feet. This is what separates a good DM from an average DM. The average DM will be looking at their notes for what to do. The good DM can adapt to changes in the story.
3) Pre-written adventures (actually, even the ones you write yourselves) are full of potential plot holes. There is no way the adventure text can account for every single possible action by the Heroes. So as a result, the BETTER way to write adventures is to describe the motivations, goals, and general behavior of NPCS instead of a scripted chain of events and dialogue.
Ok, so how do we use all of that to solve your particular situation? Here are some suggestions. Keep in mind that while I own the adventure you're playing, but haven't given it a thorough read-through. Forgive me if I bungle the plot.
What is the motivation of the Evil Wizard? It sounds like he was planning on kidnapping a prominent NPC in order to further his political position in the town. It also sounds like he is willing to go through many great lengths to achieve his goals. However, apparently he was clumsy enough to leave traceable evidence behind (we'll temporarily ignore how dumb this is), and the Heroes have found this evidence. Hmm, what is an evil wizard to do in this situation? I think the Wizard has a few options. 1) Deny Deny Deny. As you point out, his symbol isn't a secret and anyone can write it down. When caught red-handed, the wizard will attempt to blame someone else of political treachery. If the Heroes bring this up to the NPC, the evil Wizard will deny that he is behind all of this. He will become very helpful and will furthermore accuse some OTHER NPC of framing him. Ideally this second NPC would be a 3rd party with limited connections to either one of them. At the very least, the evil wizard has sown seeds of reasonable doubt and you have just created a mystery for your players. Now they might try to investigate this other NPC. Can they uncover the truth of the misdirection? Will they end up believing the wizard? The wizard offers as much help as possible to save face.
2) He gives up. The evil wizard could realize his plot is foiled and give up. Kind of an anti-climax, but it's still a plausible option. The wizard moves on and live to fight another day, as it were.
3) The switch-a-roo. Ok, so the Heroes found incriminating evidence. When the evil wizard finds this out, he will do everything in his considerable power to either destroy or obscure the evidence. Maybe he hires the thief guild to switch out the papers with another one bearing a different arcane mark. Maybe he just hires assassins to kill the party.
4) Desperate Times, Desperate Measures. The jig is up. The wizard is caught. Everyone knows it. Backed into a metaphorical corner, the wizard will fight. He kidnaps the NPC anyway. Yeah, the Heroes know it was him. But the Evil Wizard is smarter. He uses some bodyguards and illusion spells to make it LOOK LIKE the Heroes kidnapped the NPC. And he makes sure he is spotted in the act too! Now he's both accomplished his goal (kidnap the NPC), and framed the Heroes for the dastardly deed (using illusion spells to frame them).
Since I am not too familiar with the NPCs in the adventure, I won't say which is the "best" option. However, these 4 options all seem plausible courses of action for an evil wizard. Feel free to combine them too. If denying it doesn't work, the wizard escapes (use DM fiat if you must) and then tries to kill the party via assassins. If THAT doesn't work, he moves on to #4 and frames the Heroes for the kidnapping.
Either option you choose, I think you've created a really fun mystery for the players! Good luck! |
| #28bawylieSep 17, 2014 8:05:46 | First thing I'm gonna ask you is what do you want?
If the stakeout is point A, what's point B? Once you decide that, the rest falls into place.
Some considerations. Your players found a letter linking a wizard to pirates and a plot. They don't have any hard evidence. If you give them any, they will act on it. (You can probably bank on that).
By "spreading the word" about the silvered weapons, they've sent a message to the villain that they've guessed his game (or an element of his game). They've tipped their hand to him and passed him the ball? Who is the villain? Is he cautious? Will he drop this plot? Or is he crafty? How will he get around this problem?
The silvered weapons are insurance against a were-rat assault. Your players rightly expect the guards to be on even footing should that happen. So I'd want to make sure your players get a chance to see the guards win a skirmish. What other advantages can the pirates employ? They have naval power, stealth, and speed. How can we employ these to the villain's advantage?
The stakeout. Stakeouts are great ways to get information by observing people when they're off their guard. I've been on stakeouts (non-police). Half the time, we observe nothing.
However, these considerations aren't separate. They're pieces on a board. You have to look at the whole board. A villain who knows someone is on to him won't simply ignore that threat. He'll try to draw out his pursuers. Flush them out. Bait them to exposure. If he's crafty, he'll do it in a way that reinforces his position and keeps him above suspic... suspish... sushpush... Ahem.
Use the stakeout. Bait a trap. Make sure the Speaker witnesses the PCs behaving ruthlessly while the villain appears innocent. Ideally, the Villain and Speaker are meeting tonight during the stakeout. Some hard evidence prompts immediate response (illusory screams, or silhouette of a murder), they barge in, maybe attack. Maybe the wizard makes it look like they attack... |
| #29pukunuiSep 17, 2014 22:24:50 | Thanks guys. I think I've got enough to work with now.
I think the wizard would know by now that the PCs are causing him trouble, but I don't think he'll know yet that they've found evidence that points to him, nor that they've showed that evidence to the speaker. So when they go on their stakeout, I'll have him carry on with his plans as if nothing had happened. If the druid PC successfully gains entry to the wizard's office, or just manages to peer through a window, she might see him speaking with the goon he plans to send to infiltrate the local pirate gang that's just begun bothering the easternmost towns. If the druid PC goes inside the office, I'll have the wizard's quasit familiar mess with her a bit.
In the meantime, I think I'll have those PCs waiting outside get attacked by the cultists. This is an event that needs to happen at some point, and now seems as good a time as any. Plus, the noise from the fight might prompt the wizard to come out into the street to investigate (while his goon slips out the back). I think he's smart enough to surmise that the PCs are not outside his office by accident and so he might choose to help them against the cultists in order to make it look like he's on their side.
If you want to see how it turns out, check out my recap thread: Welcome to Icewind Dale.
EDIT: Would it seem contrived if the wizard had planted some kind of magical spy bug in the speaker's office? While I haven't made him high enough level to actually cast the spell scry, it wouldn't really help him anyway since it only lasts 10 minutes at a time (and he'd only be able to cast it a few times a day). If, however, he had a magical device that had some kind of perma-scry effect on it, he might be able to listen to (or watch) the speaker's conversations whenever he wishes. It could be an enchanted object that he gave to the speaker as a gift. There is a magic scrying mirror later in the adventure that the PCs can come across and use to gain access to the Ice Witch's distant fortress (instead of having to trek across the tundra and navigate the Sea of Moving Ice), so it doesn't seem entirely implausible. Having such a device exist would mean that the wizard would know that his plans with the speaker have been potentially compromised and that the PCs are the culprits, and would make him more likely to want to help them against the cultists so as to cast their suspicions elsewhere.
EDIT 2: Just had a further thought: what if the PCs see the wizard approaching them in the street only to be attacked by cultists standing nearby? The wizard comes to their aid and then offers to treat them to a warm drink in a nearby tavern to show that he means well. This could be him trying to throw them off the scent. |
| #30DM_HEEGZSep 17, 2014 22:36:45 | What about using the wizard's familiar as a spy? Could lead to some amusing RP.
Instead of cultists, maybe the wizard hires some sailors off the docks to rough up the PCs. |
| #31pukunuiSep 17, 2014 22:52:35 |
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| #32RamzourSep 18, 2014 0:43:33 |
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| #33pukunuiSep 18, 2014 1:05:16 |
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| #34NoonSep 18, 2014 1:31:05 |
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| #35pukunuiSep 18, 2014 1:51:10 |
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