Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 americanpigdog Jun 01, 2015 22:55:03	After playing through the first few chapters of the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, me and my players desperately wanted to create our own game. So, I started up a FR campaign that I'm pretty proud of, backstory wise, and started them off on what I thought was a few simple adventures.    Except not simple at all apparently. Since I didn't want to either 'railroad' my players or hold their hands, and because I wanted interesting storylines and mysteries, it seems my players are floundering with any task more complicated then "kill the big bad guy."    I hope desperately it is me, because then I can fix whatever I'm doing wrong. How do I make sure my players aren't confused? I suspect it's not me, so it's the more difficult task of training my players to deduce and roleplay correctly. One thing that keeps popping up, I've noticed, is my players make huge logical leaps based on metagame thinking. For instance, one player assumed that cure for lycanthropy (a main plot point) was somehow in the hands of the local bandit leader, because "He's the bad guy, so he probably has it."     WHAT DO   Some other ideas my players have had: "Burn down the forest. That'll do the trick" -The Wood Elf Cleric "I'm not fighting werewolves, I might die! Screw the villagers..." -The Paladin "Let's tie the corpses to the unconscious guards, then send them back to the village." -The good bard
#2 Macv12 Jun 01, 2015 23:16:48	Straight up tell them that's not the kind of game you're running?   "That's an awfully big assumption to make. Keep in mind that if Will the Wizard is wrong about this, he's just spent a lot of time spinning his wheels and the curse is soon to become permanent."   Also nothing wrong with saying "if you guys have no ideas, I guess checking the local library could help." It's only railroading if they can't escape your godly plan. If they're casting about desperately for clues and would prefer some direction, don't be afraid to help.
#3 Macv12 Jun 01, 2015 23:19:49	Also, Session 0. Railroading isn't bad. Doing it against the players' will is. Some people have no problem following a prescribed story with the character they made. (See: Bioware.) So see if they want you to write scenarios for them to go through, or just present hooks they can choose, or let them run around while you react to their antics with interesting consequences. Or something else. My current group sticks to the first option.
#4 bawylie Jun 01, 2015 23:22:53	Defective adventurers. They won't adventure. Dump them and start again with characters that WILL take a plot hook.    Anything less than full metal adventurer is a filthy commoner.
#5 tmsmilner Jun 01, 2015 23:28:32	Are your players experienced RPers?  It sounds to me like they aren't terribly used to what you're presenting, which is essentially a sandbox.  They might need the hooks to be a little shinier if they're going to bite.  As said above, there's nothing innately wrong with a little good old-fashioned railroading, provided either it's in the service of having fun, or if the PCs don't realize they're getting railroaded.  Preferably both.
#6 americanpigdog Jun 01, 2015 23:29:00	bawylie wrote:
(Reply to #5) americanpigdog	tmsmilner wrote:
#8 bawylie Jun 01, 2015 23:33:51	Right, so those characters are no good. Have your players drop them in the shredder and make characters that will actually participate in some form of adventure. They don't have to take the 1st plot hook, but A plot hook would be good.    In fact, skip the preamble:   "Whether for God, Glory, or Gold, you've Braved the dark dungeon. Said to be the lair of the werewolf lord, and rumored to contain mountains of silver he's collected and melted to slag, the dark dungeon is full of deadly peril. As you make your first few steps inside, the gates behind you slam shut, as if by magic. The chamber here opens to a natural tunnel to the west, a stout wooden door riddled with claw marks to the west, and another gate to the north, hanging open... What do you do?"
#9 bawylie Jun 01, 2015 23:34:42	I'm also recommending players 101, link in my sig
(Reply to #9) americanpigdog	bawylie wrote:
#11 FrogReaver Jun 02, 2015 0:36:23	americanpigdog wrote:
#12 BoldItalic Jun 02, 2015 2:32:26	The Paladin-who-doesn't-want-to-fight is actually a viable character concept. He can be the party's negotiator. The published adventures are carefully designed so that combat is not the only option to make progress, so try to do the same in your own adventures. Present him with situations where he can use his Charisma-based skills to talk enemies down and defuse the situation or, as a last resort, he can persuade other people to do the actual fighting while he stands ready to provide healing. Talk to the player and see if he will buy in to that idea. If he does, arrange to reward him with XP for overcoming without fighting and make it a tenet of his paladin order. "Non bellum sed pacem fero" - I make peace, not war. He can emblazon it on his shield if he likes.   If a wood elf suggests burning down the forest, keep a straight face and go with it. Ask him how he wants to do it. If his idea involves, for example, using a lot of oil, more than is readily available, then there is a new adventure hook. He might have to travel to a town, locate an oil merchant, haggle for discount prices, arrange for a carter to transport the barrels of oil to the forest, and so on. He may be more motivated to that because it was his plan. Or he might decide it's too much trouble and give up, in which case you need to wonder why he is playing D&D at all. Or just invent a skill check and say "Okay, the forest is now fiercely ablaze. Running out of the forest in a panic is ..." and you throw a sucession of increasingly bizarre monster encounters at them. Who would have guessed that pixies mounted on giant hornets had been living in the deepest part of the forest? Or a hermit who begs you to go in and help him rescue his priceless manuscripts and very large heap of flawless diamonds before they are lost forever in the flames?   Go with anything the players suggest and let them drive the story, however crazy it might get. They will have fun and so will you.
(Reply to #12) americanpigdog	BoldItalic wrote:
#14 BoldItalic Jun 02, 2015 3:04:03	americanpigdog wrote:
#15 iserith Jun 02, 2015 6:28:17	americanpigdog wrote:
(Reply to #15) americanpigdog	iserith wrote: