Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pukunui Jul 14, 2015 18:41:36	Hi folks,   Last session, the PCs were being held captive by some duergar. After an initial escape attempt failed, three of the PCs were handed over to a Red Wizard and her undead escort, while the other two were left behind (one to be ransomed off to her noble family, the other to be persuaded to switch sides). After a few days of travel, the three PCs managed to escape the wizard and her zombie warriors and vowed to go back and rescue their comrades from the duergar.   Despite this, the players of the two PCs still in captivity decided that they'd rather make new characters. I think one player was getting bored of hers, while the other decided he didn't want to keep playing that character now that he'd become evil (something that happened the session before last).   That's all fine. The (potential) issue is that the three PCs who successfully escaped have very little in the way of gear (all they've got is their clothes/armor and a single longsword). If I let the other two players bring in fully kitted-out fresh PCs, that might seem a bit unfair ... and it might send the wrong kind of message (namely, if your character gets captured and loses all their stuff, just pretend they died and roll up a new one with a whole new set of equipment).   Should I just let it slide and hope that no one complains? Should I come up with some reason why the new PCs don't have much in the way of gear either? I am unsure what to do. So I turn to my fellow DMs: what would you do if you found yourself in this situation?     Thanks in advance.   Cheers, Jonathan     p.s. Just to be clear: The gear belonging to the three escaped PCs is being held by the duergar, so they can potentially get it back. It's not lost forever.
#2 Barky Jul 14, 2015 19:05:45	If the party was sent on a quest by a third party, have the third party come back, willing to loan them some equipment to give them a second try at the quest. The equipment should not be as good as what the PCs had, but it will at least keep them in the fight until they earn their own.
#3 pukunui Jul 14, 2015 19:24:03	Barky wrote:
#4 Varden_Khol Jul 14, 2015 19:45:40	A chance encounter on the road between the remnants of your old party (3 PCs) and an adventuring duo (2 rerolled) sees the duo agreeing to help free the captives! The duo could have some extra gear around to lend, up until the point where the original gear is recovered of course.   Then during the rescue it is revealed that one of their former comrades has indeed turned rotten. Shock! Horror! What will the party do when faced with an old friend gone bad? And after it is all said and done, the one remaining captive decides to give up the adventuring life for something more stable. Perhaps even becomes a helpful NPC in the nearest big town.     As for the new PCs, new gear issue... I would personally have any new PCs show up with standard equipment. Giving up their old magic items is the price for giving up on those characters. With my players, I think this would be enough of a disincentive to prevent rerolling.
#5 pukunui Jul 14, 2015 22:09:37	Varden_Khol wrote:
#6 OrwellianHaggis Jul 15, 2015 1:04:51	The new PCs could be scouts from a small band of escaped slaves. None of those guys have much in the way of equipment, but their plans to assault the duergar and free some more slaves are coming to a head. Will the PCs join them?
#7 pukunui Jul 15, 2015 1:33:18	OrwellianHaggis wrote:
#8 pukunui Jul 15, 2015 4:26:51	OK so that's one new PC statted up. She's an elf ranger with standard starting equipment, so nothing fancy. The player also agreed to forgo any magic items or extra money because he really wanted her to have a unicorn as a mount. His idea is that the unicorn's horn is invisible so that no one will believe his character when she says it's a unicorn. After talking it over a bit, we agreed that the unicorn has actually been cursed, so its horn is not only invisible but it's magic malfunctions. The PC has to try and convince it to use its magic because whenever it does, a wild magic surge happens. I'm also going to say it doesn't have its legendary actions, and its healing touch doesn't function properly. The teleport is fine because a) it's once per day and b) there are too many PCs in the party for it to be able to take them all with it.   I forgot to suggest that the PC have some extra gear that she can give/lend to the other PCs. I'll have to e-mail the player about that.
#9 akr71 Jul 15, 2015 6:37:30	If it is a few days travel back to the duergar, could you not have a few easy-ish encounters along the road to give them the cahnce to scavenge some more gear?  I'm thinking bandits, bandit captain, vetran.  That way they could get on par with the new characters before going back for their old gear.   If the old PC's are out of the picture, there should be no issue with the new-rolled ones taking the gear.  Also, just cuz the player and/or character has accepted being rasomed back to her family, doesn't mean her old companions are.  Sounds like an adventure waiting to happen
#10 Mad_Jack Jul 15, 2015 7:41:10	Would the evil character, who's changed sides by the time the party (with the two new characters) gets back, be the sort that might allow his old comrades into the stronghold (or at least encounter them very early in the adventure), bring them to their gear and then betray them to his new friends? (Either just after they grab their gear, or immediately before, so they have a chance to A) grab whatever they can during the fight and then get the rest  afterward or B) be able to bar the door long enough to gear up.) That might solve the issue of the gear, and the evil character could meet his end at the hands of his former party, his new friends or go on to become a recurring villain. The ransomed character could have been sold back to her family by the time they arrive, or at least have been moved to an unknown location. Leaving uncertainty as to her whereabouts/fate could open up further adventures and the possibility of her coming back as an NPC if you later determine that she either escaped during transit or ran away from her family again. Or she could be stuck in a loveless marriage and looking for some way out.   Alternately... - the evil character could be pretending to side with the bad guys in the hopes that the party will rescue him, and then actually pick which which side he supports depending on who it looks like will win the fight. - either of the two captured characters could "accidentally" die in the rescue attempt, leaving room for the two new characters. - the two new guys could be prisoners themselves that the party enlists to help them rescue the two old ones (who may or may not need/want to be rescued). Perhaps they can lead the party to where everyone's gear is stored, both party and newcomers. Perhaps the party encounters them trying to escape in a creative way that wouldn't have worked for a larger group (i.e., the party "foils" their escape attempt by running into them somewhere they weren't expecting anyone to be since they've learned the schedules of everyone there).     Also, depending on how different the new and old characters are, the "problem" of the new ones getting the old ones' gear may or may not even be worth the effort to plan around, especially if nobody else in the party can use the things the old ones had. If the gear gets divided up between party members nobody's going to be getting anything significantly better than they already had - it's mainly just a redistribution of resources the party already possessed. Even if the new characters have their own gear and magic items, it will mainly mean that maybe one or two of the party members ends up with a better suit of armor or an extra +1 dagger or something, which isn't really a significant increase in party resources.
#11 scythebladex Jul 15, 2015 7:49:51	Wow, you're a nice DM. One time, a player of mine wanted to re-roll his character, so I let him, killed off his other character, and introduced his new character. He had only his basic starting gear, and I just threw him a bone by giving them an early item drop that benefitted his new character class. The other players shifted their equipment around to benefit him a little bit as well, purely their own decision and kindness. They also retrieved the old character's gear, sold what they couldn't really use anymore, and bought a decent second magic item for him as well with that gold   I don't personally like it as a DM when a player wants to re-roll their character every time they get bored, and I agree that just handing them a bunch of equivelent gear is a bit too rewarding. But I honeslty see nothing wrong with just giving them basic gear. It's not like their higher level class options don't work without a +1 Mace of Warning and a Robe of Eyes already in their inventory. Make them work to get new gear, just like they did before. The moment your PC's start expecting rewards ahead of time for doing nothing but showing up or making a new character, is the moment they will stop being appreciative of such rewards when they come up.   If you're concerned about working it into the story, why adventurer's of X level don't have Y equivelent gear, I think it makes more sense, especially if their background wasn't dungeon delving. It shouldn't be weird that a character only has basic equipment listed in the class starting equipment section. If you're feeling especially generous, just give them some extra gold, or pay out extra gold in the loot for the next mission to make up for any losses, as well as whatever gear you feel they should have over the next few missions (just not all at once, but at a faster rate than everyone else, and not forgetting to award other random loot as well).   Long story short, definitely don't reward them directly with magic items and gear if they want to make a new character. If anything, it gives them some incentive to make their character work. It should not be taken so lightly.
#12 Qzoo Jul 15, 2015 14:39:03	I would ask that any new characters have a tie to the character they lost or should want to rescue.  It instantly gives them incentive to join the group and go and help their family/friend/guild/brotherhood/faction/drinking buddy/evil twin/whatever.
#13 pukunui Jul 15, 2015 16:20:18	akr71 wrote:
#14 BRJN Jul 15, 2015 16:39:09	You can make the 'fleeing Princess Vesta' (if I remember Spaceballs correctly) character playable again by resolving the brother.  The 3 free PCs could jump his camp in the night, kill him, and steal HIS gear.  The group is otherwise going to have to fake her death - which could be an opportunity to see how creative they are.   Where there are slave-raiders, there are armed patrols / punitive attack parties, sponsored by whoever is getting kidnapped.  The PCs run into one of them.  They can get mundane gear.    Bonus: the raiders detect the Red Wizard who is following the PCs' tracks.
#15 shintashi Jul 15, 2015 16:42:31	generally i try to start people from 1st level, even if they are entering a new adventure with higher level people. I might take a few sessions asside from the normal times to get them up to snuff, depending on the gap. If you want to be fair, have the new characters be on the other side of the mountain, cave, building, etc., being recent escapees of an organized crime race, thus even though "they escaped" with nothing, the new guys also have nothing, so everyone is unified in one goal: get stuff back and get revenge!   trust me, common enemy is one of the best unifiers, and most people really hate being poor.
#16 pukunui Jul 15, 2015 19:55:16	BRJN wrote:
#17 sleypy Jul 16, 2015 13:32:38	How about one set of slavers runs across another set of slavers and have things turn violent during their dealings. In the resulting chaos, the old group and the the new group would be together and both their gear would be nearby. It will be up to them to flee immediately or retreive their equipment. That way they will either all be poor or all be kitted out.