Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 blazeninja Feb 12, 2015 10:41:25	​I've been playing D&D for quite a few years now and I just started DMing for the first time for my group of friends. The problem is, they're mostly all new to the game and I'm having some problems working with them in certain areas. I understand that a lot of these are because of inexperience but I just don't know how do deal with them without being pushy or forcing my players to play in a particular way. These are my players and what I need advice on.   Half-Orc Fighter: Not to much of an issue, does fine in combat and roleplays well. The biggest problem is her background. More or less all it is is that she was a Half-orc who was raised by elves and became a bounty hunter.   Wood Elf Ranger: Has a similar problem with his background. He's supposed to be the last member of his clan, what caused this? Apparently he was to young to remember... And he's an adult elf. Beyond that he does some silly things in social situations but I don't mind that to much (8 charisma).   Teifling Warlock: The only one in the group who's played before, and who's idea it was to get together in the first place. I really have no problems with him except one. He's insistent on playing a chaotic evil character. Even though he's been acting more chaotic neutral but he tells me it's just because he hasn't gotten the chance yet.   High Elf Wizard: Has no idea on what to do with his character. All he's gotten is that he used to assist in taking out dangerous monsters as part of his training.   Human Paladin: Honestly this is the guy who I'm having the most trouble with. He often tries to avoid role playing and doesn't know what to do when he does. He doesn't take much of anything seriously and often interrupts what others are saying even when he's not in the same location as the characters. In combat he constantly forgets about his spells and only ever wants to hit things with a sword. He's also always messaging other people on his phone whenever it's not his turn and generally not paying attention when stuff not related to him.   So that's what I'm having trouble with. I want to help them out because they're new but at the same time I don't want to tell them what to do.
#2 bawylie Feb 12, 2015 11:12:02	1.) stop worrying about the characters. You're the DM. The players manage the characters and you manage everything else.  2.) read DM 101 & Players 101 in my sig 3.) I don't permit defective adventurers in the game. This means no Lawful Stupids, Chaotic Neutrals, or Chaotic evils (among other things, like adventurers who won't adventure or lone wolves). If the CE character is defective, kick it and get the player to make something that isn't.  4.) Explore the mysterious backstories IN PLAY or they don't matter anyway.
#3 Coredump00 Feb 12, 2015 11:23:15	Yeah, don't worry about their backstory too much. Over the years, I have played a ton of characters that never even had a backstory.  It can be cool to have one, and helpful for campaign tie-ins etc... but not necessary for a successful campaign.
#4 blazeninja Feb 12, 2015 11:36:55	Thanks for the advice. How can I encourage my players to get into the game more then? There's been a few situations where the players didn't know what to do, and they're to afraid of screwing up that they don't want to get into role playing.
#5 Devils-Advocate Feb 12, 2015 11:43:06	bawylie wrote:
#6 ExpendableAgent Feb 12, 2015 11:46:36	As far as the Half-Orc Fighter, Wood Elf Ranger, and High Elf Wizard go I don't see too much of an issue with their backgrounds being generic. For new players it can be daunting to come up with a fully realized character concept and background. I would say just go with the flow and maybe come up with some character specific plot hooks that fill in some of those blanks. For example:   The Half-Orc Fighter could suddenly find herself the target of a former bounty who escaped custody or the former bounty becomes the main villains top henchmen. The Wood Elf Ranger finds a clue about what happened to his clan and it points to the main villain being involved The party could encounter a strange monster and the High Elf wizard recognizes it as a rare beast he encountered many years ago that got away.   Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. The point is you have a lot of room to work with there. If anything, at this point with new players I would be more concerned they are playing in a manner true to their characters. I stole this link from Iserith's signature and it was a tremendous help to me:   http://lookrobot.co.uk/2013/06/20/11-ways-to-be-a-better-roleplayer/   For the Tielfing Warlock that's a bit of a different issue. Personally, my DM alarm bells start ringing furiously whenever someone says they want to be Chaotic Neutral/Evil, because it seems people just use it as an excuse to do whatever they want. My question would be what alignments do the rest of the party members have? If it is generally good (which I would assume because of the Paladin), I might ask the player to settle of Chaotic Neutral at least. Otherwise, I ask them what incentive does a Chaotic Evil character (the best analogue being the Joker) have to hang around a bunch of do-gooders. Also, it might be easier on the new players if they didn't have to struggle with both learning the game and dealing with a character that has drastically different morals.   The Human Paladin may be playing the wrong game? He may just be one of those people who are not particularly interested in Dungeons and Dragons, but enjoys hanging out with friends. It might help to set some ground rules for your sessions, such as no mobile phones (unless there is an emergency of course), no interrupting other players when they are speaking, etc. That's not "telling them what to do", it's just creating an environment where all the players have a chance to contribute. As for not being able to roleplay, some people just don't have a knack for it and that's okay. It can also be hard for a new player to keep track of all their spells and abilities. You could try hinting at when casting a spell might be more beneficial than whacking something with a sword. It just may take more time for him to learn the full extent of his character's abilities.   That's my 2 cents anyway.
#7 Devils-Advocate Feb 12, 2015 11:47:23	blazeninja wrote:
(Reply to #5) AaronOfBarbaria	Devils-Advocate wrote:
#9 Xguild Feb 12, 2015 11:54:14	The thing you have to reckognize about new roleplayers and gaming groups is they are influenced and often created by social situations outside of the game.  For example its quite common for new players to join under pressure (talking them into it) or because they feel excluded if they don't join (What's everyone doing Friday Night, want to go to a movie?  No man, we are playing D&D, you should join us) ... The result is often that you have players that join that actually do it for other reason than an actual interest in role-playing and being part of the hobby.   I don't have any impericale data, but I do have nearly 30 years of experiance I would say about half the people who try role-playing wash out or lose interest, or should wash out but stick it out for the social gathering.     There are some good ways to spot if you have a player who probobly won't work out  or might always feel problematic to you.  The two here I think are the most common ones and it seems like you might have a couple in your group.   Signs of Lack of Interest: They don't pay attention during the game, show up late, don't read books, seem to always forget the rules etc, never remember what happened last session.  In general these sort of players are giving you all the signals you need to reckognize that they are along for the ride but aren't actually committed or particularly interested.  Most people into the hobby are at least partially obsessed, they will have the urge to buy their own book, they will contact you between session to talk about their character or ask questions.     Gamers but Not Role-players:  Its actually more common than I think people reckognize, but its perhaps because you get mixed signals from people who are gamers but not really role-players.  For example gamers will typically be really into the abilities of their characters, they might read the books (buy them), they may play a lot of PC or console role-playing games, even read fantasy novels.  They give off a lot of signs that they are interested in fantasy, storytelling and the game as a whole.  But the reality is to them the game is combat, they want to play the game.  These type of players will typically shut down during role-playing, or get silly, they won't pay much attention to their backstory, quite often they want to be evil characters as it gives them the freedom to solve every problem with violance (start fights) and technically be in character. They become hyper active and excited during combat.    My advice is just give it sometime.  You may be getting false signals, new groups have to get over the awkwardness that comes with role-playing.  New players are typically more consious about what's going one during the game (bunch of adults pretending to be fantasy characters, its a bit silly if you just think about that for a minute).  The akwardness will eventually evaporate once people get more comfertable and it will be easier to identify which players will work out.
#10 blazeninja Feb 12, 2015 11:58:36	ExpendableAgent wrote:
#11 ExpendableAgent Feb 12, 2015 12:01:32	Devils-Advocate wrote:
#12 Ranthalan Feb 12, 2015 12:13:04	I'm not a stickler for alignment, and I think it can be fluid (assuming it changes based on events in the game).    I generally let players have a lot of leeway in their alignments at the beginning of a campaign (although I don't allow evil characters) . Especially players new to the game.  It often takes players several sessions to find their character.  After a session or three, I'll point out player actions that are out of alignment.  If it continues, I simply tell the player his character is a more appropriate alignment.
#13 Archon007 Feb 12, 2015 12:25:20	The best advice I can give you is as the GM you set the example. You need to be in NPC character when interacting with the players, you need to be descriptive when describing hits or misses, you need to be descriptive when the player says "can I roll x skill check" i.e. Sounds like you are trying to do or can you describe how you are doing that, etc   The GM sets the tone and it's even more important with new players. I would recommend you read Session Zero most issues like you are experiencing could have been avoided. Also, Google Dungeon World Bonds and have your players pick 2-3 to tie the characters together.
(Reply to #13) Ranthalan	Archon007 wrote:
#15 Devils-Advocate Feb 12, 2015 13:29:48	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #5) Coredump00	Devils-Advocate wrote:
#17 Devils-Advocate Feb 12, 2015 13:48:02	ExpendableAgent wrote:
#18 Devils-Advocate Feb 12, 2015 13:49:44	Coredump00 wrote:
#19 bawylie Feb 12, 2015 13:50:38	Really, I find alignment is best when it's emergent. By which I mean don't select it at character creation, how you play will eventually show who your adventurer is. Once that's clear, mark alignment if you want.    Wrt CN, yes, I am referring to those who use CN as a wildcard. If you just want to do what you want to do w/o fear of DM reprisal (which is why ppl pick CN anyway) then you're gaming the DM - Whereas I don't want to impose strict rules on alignment, you won't face retribution. Anyway, even if you DO pick alignment, I don't pay attention until & unless adherence to that alignment makes you defective.    Getting players interested is a whole different can of worms. It is legendarily the hardest thing for every DM. Every DM, every game, can simply fall flat. We ALL have a campaign that fizzled, or a session, or an adventure. It happens.    What I try to do (and its *work*) is to incorporate all kinds of different things for people to do, evoke Emotional responses that reflect the in-game scenario I'm trying to create, give players a long leash to pursue their own goals, and fill their lives with metal f-ing conflict.    This is a crazy hard thing to do. Bc ultimately, only 25% of it is up to you. My games are riddled with quests, objectives, collectables, sensations, side quests, self-referential mythologies, mini games, music, between-game flash fictions. It's constant effort from me to make my game as good as it can possibly be. That said, I can only lead these bastards to water...
#20 bawylie Feb 12, 2015 14:01:11	Ps - strictly IMO - The best DMs don't lose sight of the game & treat the game AS a game. They keep the Goals of Play first in mind, and ensure the Players of the game are getting the intended experience.    Here are some design principles I've collected: •Good is a restriction you impose on yourself
#21 bawylie Feb 12, 2015 14:05:43	To someone else, who maybe has different goals, my DM credo and design principles are debatably useless or wrongheaded. This stuff works for me. Maybe not for you.    Either way. Take what works, ignore what doesn't. Experiment & figure it out.
#22 Barky Feb 12, 2015 16:25:06	Wow, so much advice, I hate to give any now.   Except this:  just play. Don't overthink. Maybe forget about backgrounds until everyone gets their "D&D LEGS". Run some combats. Throw them into a maze. Let them find some treasure. At its core, it's just a game. Don't fret, just try to have some fun.   After a few weeks, you'll figure out what you like, what they like, what you hate and what they hate, and you can also expand into things like backgrounds because you've gotten used to the rest of it.
#23 Greenstone.Walker Feb 12, 2015 16:59:37	Coredump00 wrote:
#24 Archon007 Feb 12, 2015 17:40:59	Greenstone.Walker wrote:
#25 Coredump00 Feb 12, 2015 20:26:28	My problem with how alignment is seen by many is the XY graph, it makes Good and Evil look like they are mechanically the same....    In my eyes, a Good person will try and do Good things, will  sometimes not do the Good thing, but instead do the Neutral thing, but will almost never do the evil thing. An Evil person will do Evil things, but may also do plenty of Neutral and even Good things.   And that is the difference. If you spend all day being Mother Theresa, and at night kill one person a day, you are still Evil.  Evil is a taint, it corrupts. Its like a poison in food.   If the goal is to make a nutritous stew, you use Good ingredients, you may have some filler, but once you dump in the poison, the entire stew is considered poisonous.  Pointing out the meat and vegetables does not 'balance' the arsenic.   To me a CN person would not be as concerned about doing the 'right thing', but would still be unlikely to do actually Evil acts.
#26 bawylie Feb 12, 2015 20:30:14	I know this was my fault, but let's more or less cut it there.
#27 Azylynne Feb 12, 2015 22:44:22	The backgrounds sound like a lot of fun.  At least your playrs gave you "some" backgrounds, which you can totally run wild with at your discretion as the DM.  Drop hints of their background here and there, and take the time (if you want), to flesh it out and slowly introduce their background as they progress.  Makes for some compelling storytelling. I would ask the Tiefling player to not play evil, mostly because it'll be more complicated for you.  Just ask him nicely.  Instead, ask him to help train up the Paladin player.  Tie their backgrounds together, and the Paladin could use some direction and help from a more experienced player.  I currently am running for two young teens in one game, and they started playing with another game that I am involved in too.  As a DM, I radically restrict some of the more "dumb" stuff they do (excusing is at they hav decent intelligence or wisdom scores).  But, as a player, I also "guide" them as they game along, calling them out on stupid actions (like moving past our shield wall standing alone against foes, or trying to steal from the group - my character has hawk-like eyes!).  In both situations, there is much humor surrounding their "edification' and I think they are improving as "new" players even if they are young players.   For the Paladin, if he's just there to join in with his friends, lay down some basic ground rules at the table... pay attention, try not to be on your phones, or if you miss stuff, too bad!  Include his character through NPC interaction and time to time highlight the importance of his Paladin.  What role is his character in the game... tank?  Let him be tank! Also, if players are stuck, it doesn't hurt to make suggestions - like often I'll ask, anyone trained in "Nature" or some skill.  I'll ask them to make a roll (basically arbitrary), and if they beat say DC10 or 12 or something simple, I'll have them recall something about a creature, or region, or a popular tale that may relate to the situation they are stuck in.  Of course I'll always let players figure things out first. Carry on, have fun, and report in what's going on!
#28 pukunui Feb 13, 2015 1:15:32	Greenstone.Walker wrote:
#29 BRJN Feb 13, 2015 17:39:14	blazeninja wrote:
#30 iserith Feb 13, 2015 19:26:53	blazeninja wrote:
#31 Beldak_Serpenthelm Feb 13, 2015 20:00:35	Archon007 wrote:
#32 Vahnyu Feb 14, 2015 15:03:36	Devils-Advocate wrote:
#33 Devils-Advocate Feb 14, 2015 18:50:59	Vahnyu wrote:
#34 blazeninja Feb 16, 2015 10:54:14	After the most recent session, I've come to a conclusion. The problem isn't so much that the player's backgrounds are vague (which many of you kindly pointed out) but the fact that they aren't getting into charecter. Most of the time when roleplaying has come up they've acted as themselves, not as their charecter. I'm thinking that having the next session be purely roleplaying and handing out inspiration more often for being in charecter will help the problem, is this a good plan?
#35 iserith Feb 16, 2015 11:07:29	Every session of a roleplaying game is "purely roleplaying," in that you're making decisions your character might also make given the in-game context. Deciding to swing your sword at an orc is roleplaying. If you mean "deciding to talk to NPCs and each other," that is also roleplaying. Players decide to engage with NPCs when they need something. So create that need and see what happens.   Inspiration is a decent enough reward for when players play to their characters' established traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws. It's easiest for them to demonstrate this when dealing with conflicts, so don't just put your quirky, cagey NPCs in front of them and hope for the best. Create conflicts.
#36 Vahnyu Feb 16, 2015 11:08:37	If you want your players to play closer to their characters, why shouldn't you reward them? If they find themselves playing closer to their character just so that they get rewarded, that's fine as well. If they don't want though, then that probably means that they didn't properly articulate what the character they are playing was, from the beginning. Work with them to make corrections accordingly, and then start rewarding them for when they stay true to the revised characterization.   Just pay attention to reward them for who their characters are, based on their background traits, personality, history, etc, instead of what you tthink they are or should be.   And honestly, if even after all this, they want to act as themselves, then GOOD FOR THEM! It's their character, and they can portray them as they like.
#37 BoldItalic Feb 16, 2015 13:27:26	If the players prefer to be themselves rather than what is written on their character sheets, then let them change their character sheets to reflect that. If it says on a character sheet "I'm suspicious of strangers" but, in play, the player offers to makes friends with every NPC they meet, then change the character sheet to say "I iike to meet new people". Then everyone can relax and get on with the game. It's not like you are acting out the script of a play, where the playwright has decided the characters' personalities and the actors have to be able to portray whatever they are given; the players are the authors and a character sheet is a mirror, not a straightjacket.
#38 BRJN Feb 17, 2015 14:51:58	BoldItalic wrote:
#39 Goon-for-Hire Feb 17, 2015 15:47:22	Don't get too hung up on story.  This is your players' first whirl.  Let them get used to the game concepts.  Start light with old-school dungeon crawls, where the story is very much constructed by the environment, rather than by expoisiton.  Keep it episodic for the first little while, and worry about building an overarching story a litle later on.  Once they have a feel for how the game is played you can slowly step up the more theatrical role-playing elements.   Look at old modules like Keep on the Borderlands, The Village of Hommlet, or Horror on the Hill for inspiration for 1st-time games.
#40 Noon Feb 18, 2015 15:56:51	blazeninja wrote: