Hello,
I've been a DM for a good amount of years and used to run campaigns in every possible addition. So far 5th edition has been my favorite and has a lot of good things in it that I really love, but I do have some minor issues with it (biggest one is the very dissapointing treatment of the beloved Ranger class).
I'm very interested in creating a low-magic dark fantasy world (very much like the witcher games/ warhammer fantasy/ darkest dungeon) and I want to create an alternative version for the Ranger, Paladin and Bard classes in which they aren't spellcaster but have some special spell-like abilities instead that complements the theme of the class and still keeps it strong and balanced,
So far I roughed out my take on the no-spell ranger:
It oviously has a lot of the same stuff cause it's still the same class but the biggest changes I made are giving the ranger a Hunter's Mark ability (resembling the hunter's quarry from 4E with I really liked) and Aspects of the Wild which are passive abilities based some spells and effects from the Ranger's spell list.
I would love to get some feedback on this.
I would also love to get any suggestion for any source material for no-spell rangers, paladins and/or bards, low magic in D&D (prefferably 5th edition) or if anyone had already successfuly did something simillar before.
If I can't make this work I might just switch to the Warhammer Fantasy rpg, but I really want to make this work with D20 cause I think it's still the most solid and balanced system around and the 5th edition seems like it has so much potential and flexibility.
Thank you!
Ranger's Tounge should be combined with the druid's, in my opinion, if you want a secret language. There's no reason for a class that's primarily about keeping civilization safe from monsters to write in some kind of code.
Aspects feel like a rip off the Totem Barbarians stick. They don't feel very ... ranger-y to me. Its all "One With The Wild" when I don't know if that's something all rangers want. To me, Rangers are trackers, hunters, monster slayers, and guardians. And the random addition of Beguiling Influence feels off, as does the Wild Empathy "charm beast" effect; not only is it a spell in a spell-less ranger, but its unlimited use is basically enough to end entire combats on its own. Ripping off the Rogue's Cunning Action is just... no. That's their entire stick. The whole "cannot use in towns!" is a bit annoying, especially when the 5e ranger powers all work in civilization; its more than possible to make urban rangers.
Over all, strong dislike of Aspects. Its basically feeling like "steal all the cool stuff from other classes." If you need Aspects, I suggest looking over the ranger spell list - there's a number of things, such as longstrider, the one where you don't leave traces of movement, and a few others are rather thematic abilities you can make not-spells.
Hunter's Mark is all but worthless. I'm better off using my bonus action with a shield to knock a monster prone and get advantage on my attacks, or using the dual wielding rules for extra damage that way. A long bow is the only time that its worth using, just because there's no point when it demands a bonus action. Unless we're talking beastmaster, at which point the Help bonus action gives you advantage. That's flat out better.
Beastmaster is still messing up the Ranger's action economy, making it a horrible choice, among other things. Especially with how much focus you have on the Hutner mark now. Its just... bad. Not to mention - no spells, no healing of the pet. They'll die insanely quick.
Speaking of things lost without spells, there are a number of spells that made Rangers awesome at archery. Especially Swift Quiver. Their loss is notable.
If you want to make Hunter's Mark a thing, I suggest moving it entirely to the Hunter (hey! the name's match!) subclass, and working from there.
Thanks for the notes.
I agree that the whole aspects thing don't work and over all it's far from being good. As I said it's just a rough and I'm trying to figure this thing out.
I think that what I'm going for is defenitly keeping the whole aspect of the Ranger being a tracker/survivalist that already exists and I think works well as it is, but making him more of a monster slayer.
Basically dropping the whole support magic and switching it with track down and kill active abilities that have no magical origin but come from the ranger's sharp sences and training.
I don't like the ranger being a healer of any kind but it's a good note about the beastmaster path should have a way to heal the companion somehow.
Unfortunatly the beast master at it's base form in the PHB is kinda sucky compated to the other path. Do you have any suggestions about how to modify it without making it OP?
About the Ranger's Tounge, it's more of a rolepalying/flavor thing and not really a game mechanic anyway. I do want Rangers to have their own language (since I want them to be a small circle of woodland warriors/scouts with their own code and costumes) and not be assosiated with Druids (wich are doing their own thing) even though right now the power it is basically just a copy and paste ability from the druid and I will tweak it to probably be something inbetween that and thieve's cant (that rangers leave other rangers messages in the wild about hazards, orc bands movement, etc).
I really want to give the Ranger a unique ability (like the Paladin's smite or Rogue's sneak attack) that would classify him as a monster slayer/hunter that locks on one target and is hell bent on destroying it and I don't really like how the whole favored enemy thing works right now, and tbh I was never a huge fan of having a favored enemy cause it can be very situational and depends on the campaign.
The idea of a Hunter's Quarry abiilty from 4e ranger really appeals to me and it was very useful back then. Do you have any suggestions about how I could make it more relevant to the 5th edition Ranger?
Also the way I have the hunter's mark working now is that you only need to take that bonus action once to mark a creature (prefereably the toughest monster) and then it's marked until it's dead so on any other turn subsequent to that action you will still be able to use your bonus action to sheild bash if you want to.
Basically I want a player that plays a Ranger in my game to feel like the classic old-school ranger - like Aragon and Lagolas from LOTR, or Minsc and Kivan from Baldur's Gate which were just badass fighters with mobility and survival skills. Any suggestions about that?
DungeonKeeper86 wrote:
Cool, this is all very helpful.
You definitly gave me a new prespective on this.
Thanks alot!
After looking at it, I think you should have Hunter's Mark function a specific number of times per day, considering how it's worded. Either that or make it just a standard damage bonus, like Sneak Attack is for rogues.
Aspect of the Hunting Wolf seems redundant considering that they already get the "Move stealthily at normal speed" from their terrain specialization.
And some of these aspects are stepping on the toes of the Barbarian's Animal Totems.
Beyond that, I think everything else is fine. Just consider revising the Aspects a bit.
Hello DungeonKeeper,
I agree completely that the Ranger class is the most underwhelming class in what is otherwise a strong edition of D&D. I had some spare time last night and used your magic less ranger template to fix up the class. Hopefully, you can use it with some minor modifications in your low-magic setting. Some of what I was trying to achieve with the attached document:
1. Use the Warlock build system to create more flexibility in character generation around three central themes (Archer, 2-Weapon Wielder & Beastmaster)
2. Make animal companions are more viable choice by adding more options and changing some of the level requirements
3. Provide more combat damage and survivability to the archer and 2-weapon wielder themes to compensate them for losing the versatility of spellcasting
4. Isolate the druid magic stuff to make it easy to remove for a low-magic setting
I haven't theory-crafted anything so some options may be more or less powerful then they should be for their level. I did try to balance the options against each other and other relevant class options particularily similar options in the Fighter, Rogue and Warlock classes. Feedback is appreciated.
DizzoDizzman wrote:
I have been thinking of making the No Magic Ranger also. My plans are to have Hunter's Mark as a set +1d8 damage vs the marked target Once per round, Increased speed (not sure if just 10ft or a progression similar to the Monks), an extra Ability Increase(like the fighters has to give access to more feats), and Heightened Senses(Low Light, Scent, or something). I also considered a "Song of Rest" type ability linked to use of herbs.