Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ranorak Dec 10, 2014 5:57:03	First of all, I have all three books but I admit I haven't had the time to finish the DMG. So forgive me if my question can be awsnered by a page number.   Second of all, I tried googling this question, and got some old posts from last summer with nothing but guesses.   As for the main question.   I'm making some Characters using the Character Creation progress in the PHB, for villians.   These villians will level up as well, and gain abilities like the PC's. That's why I'm not using a static monster stats block.   So, these villians will not attack the part singlehandedly, They'll either have monsters as back-up or team up with each other. (those monsters obviously have a stat block from the MM and thus a CR and EXP cost)   How will I go about and "balanse" these fights?   What "exp" cost do class-NPC's have?   Is a 1 on 1 fight between two lvl 5 characters about equal? If so, what do I do with the support monsters?   I hope my question is clear to you all.   Thanks in advance, Ranorak!
#2 Sorxores Dec 10, 2014 6:56:21	the CR system basically mean that the average monster with a CR of X will be a average challenge for a party of 4 adventurer lvl X assuming normalized luck factor (critting only once per 20 roll dices, dealing average of 3.5 damage with a d6 etc...) An average encounter mean the player should win the encounter, but will have to spend some ressource to succeed (using high level spell but not neccessarily the highest level spells, use some consummable items, take some damage etc...)   Technically a NPC build like a PC facing a PC of the same level in a 1vs1 honorable fight would be consider a deadly, since (if both character are play at the best of there ability and averaging the luck factor) will have to use ALL theirs abilities to win. but against a group of 4 adventurer, then I believe it could be an average challenge so I would say that a NPC lvl X woul dbe consider a CR X.   Furthermore, often when the PHB refer to monster CR they also say that if the creature doesn't ahve a CR you can use his character level instead.   Remember this is all theoric, in practice, a dragon sorcerer lvl 1 with magic missile and shield could kill any other class very easily, cast magic missile dealing 3d4+3 to a player, if that player doesn't have the spell shield ready, he coudl take a maximum of 15 HP which is enought to bring under 0HP almost any character lvl 1. If the  barbarian come close enoguht to attack, then he need to beat a AC of 20 (13+2(dex)+5(shield) with the +5 to hit barbarian have at lvl 1, he need to roll 15+, 80% miss chance here. Also remember that a barbarian lvl 1 can easily defeat a surprised wizard lvl 10. the barbarian run to the wizard (who never expected the barbarian to attack him and pin him to the ground, preventing him to speak or move his arm, with his interaction with environment, he spit in the wizard troath as soon that he open his mouth, that should at least choke him and ruin his spell) The wizard weak strenght will alway fail any attempt to escape from the barbarian formidable strenght. Also remember all those treath about a wizard lvl 5 who can somehow kill a Tarasque by casting fly staying out of reach of the tarrasque then simply casting acid splash untill the Tarrasque die. I saw a paladin and a cleric lvl 9 kill a Lich, simply with the cleric casting silence  and the paladin using all his undead destructive smite power on his attacks, and on the AoO.
#3 cowleymen Dec 10, 2014 7:35:46	So it depends on combination of things. An optimized villan with class levels will be much tougher then one put together with rolls to randomly decide things. You might consider taking a Stat block of the correct type, and adding a few class features or spell levels. This will raise its challange rating some, but IMO be easier to balance. Then if you have a battle master that has a chance to study this villian, you can still say villan has x class levels.
(Reply to #2) AaronOfBarbaria	Sorxores wrote: