| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1Meta4icAug 18, 2015 5:59:44 | A quick question : am I the only one thinking the Cult Fanatic (MM p. 345) and the Priest (MM p. 348) shouldn't have the same CR? They have similar AC and HP (minus a d8 for the Priest). Yes, the Fanatic has Multiattack, but the Priest is a 5th-level spellcaster, which makes him very challenging, as we know 3rd level spells are a big step up from 2nd and lower level spells. My guess is the Priest should be CR 3.
I came into this issue trying to convert from playtest to actual 5e rules the Dark adepts, Dark acolytes et Dark priest found in the last part of the Caves of chaos scenario.
A clarification on this could, furthermore, help DMs figure out the CR of an NPC with class levels. |
| #2pukunuiAug 18, 2015 6:32:21 | It really depends on which spells the priest has prepared. Available spell levels are irrelevant on their own. Only individual spells that contribute directly to the priest's offensive or defensive capabilities factor into its CR.
That being said, I think the CR values of a number of the NPCs in the MM appendix are a bit wonky. I reckon the Guard should be bumped up to CR 1/4, for instance. |
| #3Meta4icAug 18, 2015 17:11:36 | The Priest has a lot of spells contributing to his offensive : spirit guardians (3rd), spiritual weapon (2nd), guiding bolt (1st) and sacred flame (cantrip) are alone a jolly cocktail to throw at a party.
1st round : spirit guardians 3d8 dmg (½ on a sucessful save) in a 15' radius as an action
2nd round : sacred flame 1d8 dmg (none on a sucessful save) 2nd round : spiritual weapon 1d8+3 (melee spell attack) as a bonus action Still 2nd round : spirit guardians (thanks to concentration) 3d8 dmg
If all blows land and save fail, that's 5d8+3 dmg every round, maybe more if 2 or 3 targets are caught in the 15' radius, until the concentration is broken (and there's still a 3rd level spell slot available for another iteration of spirit guardians).
Oh, and he can throw a Cure Wounds in if he forfeits one round of spiritual weapon.
Meanwhile, the cult fanatic can multiattack with his daggers (2d4+4) and use spiritual weapon as a bonus action (1d8+1). That's not even halfway through the Priest's damage output.
Does it seem more relevant put that way?
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| #4pukunuiAug 18, 2015 17:12:59 | I'd suggest running them both through the monster creation guidelines in the DMG. It's possible the priest's CR should be higher than it is, or the cult fanatic's should be lower. I can't really say without doing the math myself. |
| #5DM_CraigAug 18, 2015 18:43:49 | It does seem that the CR system for 5e is a little complicated, with so many variables determining what the overall CR is, especially when considering NPCs. What we really need is for somebody to write up some powerful algorithims that can take a whole bunch of plugged in values (damage per round, armor class, etc.) and generate the CR. Who's up for it??? |
| #6pukunuiAug 18, 2015 19:47:07 |
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| #7Meta4icAug 19, 2015 5:39:14 | I ran those two NPCs through the monster creation guidelines (DMG p. 274-275) and it turned out to be the Cult fanatic being incorrectly given a CR 2 instead of CR 1.
Here's the math (according to the method) :
So both shouldn't have the same CR, but it's the Cult fanatic that was rated too highly, not the other way around, as I infered when I started this thread.
Anyways, there have to be a less tedious way to calculate those NPC's CR. Unless it's the CR concept itself that doesn't fly very well. |
| #8DM_CraigAug 19, 2015 6:17:48 | I think the CR concept works fine for monsters and such from what I've seen so far. It just becomes a little more tricky when you throw in NPCs who have a wider variety of action options, especially when considering spells. Maybe the tedious work of rating each spell and giving it either a defensive or offensive CR? Then you could work the spells themselves into the averaging equation. Not sure if that would work or not. |