Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cooperjera Apr 28, 2015 10:29:18	Hello,   I have a player that made a character inspired by Sherlock Holmes.  It's a Knowledge Cleric mixed with little bit of Rogue.  The player expressed a concern with contribution to combat while using the short bow.  In this particular instance, the NPC decided run past the PCs without taking the Disengage action to try and escape quickly, i.e. Dash action was taken.  The Holmes character with a short bow drawn, was allowed an unarmed strike opportunity attack at the DMs discretion.  After the game, the player asked if there is a way to get opportunity attacks with ranged weapons, or use a short bow with a dagger in the hand drawing the string.  I smiled at the dagger idea because it seems a little outrageous, and I don't think the player was serious.   To my recollection, opportunity attacks occur when a creature leaves the weapon range.  This rule prevents ranged characters from contributing in the same manner as the melee characters.  Is there a rule that would allow a ranged attacker to make opportunity attacks?   I've been thinking of some house rules to allow some contribution.  The following are the ideas: 1. Allow an opportunity attack when the target leaves line of sight 2. Allow an opportunity attack when the target achieves total cover   Would you feel either of these house rules would lead to excess damage output by a Ranger or ranged Fighter, if a player were to play that type of character?
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Apr 28, 2015 11:04:10	Thouse house rules strike me as not great ideas. The rationale for a normal opportunity attack is that the provoking creature has done something which creates an opening for their opponent to exploit - i.e. you have turned and left without keeping your guard up. That same rationale doesn't apply in the conditions you propose for ranged opportunity attacks, and in fact an almost exactly opposite rationale does, as those actions are an improvement of your guard against ranged attack.   It does also alter the potential damage output of a ranged character, but I'm not at all concerned with that because it is a very small amount - it is mostly my concern that including these rules will result in a mechanical encouragement to stand out in the open when faced with ranged attackers because attempting to use cover benefits your attack now even though it only benefits you later, if at all.   As for suggestions how to solve the "problem" that this player is having wherein they are not satisfied to use unarmed attacks in the rare instance their bow-using character is in position for an opportunity attack:   See how the DM feels about considering an arrow used as an improvised stabbing weapon a finesse weapon so the character can use their likely superior Dexterity for the attack and damage rolls, but at the very least it is better damage than the unarmed strike would be in the same situation.
#3 Cooperjera Apr 28, 2015 11:18:45	Since I'm the DM it's easy enough to consider without a conference with another person.  I like the idea of using the arrow as an attack weapon, in part because it supports the idea of carrying ammunition in the string hand.  I've seen enough impressive YouTube videos of the archer with arrows in the string hand that it seems feasible.  I assume the proposal would result in damage of 1d4+Dex or Str modifier piercing.  I'm not sure there is a standard weapon similar enough to hand wielded arrow that it would not fall under standard improvised weapon damage.
#4 AaronOfBarbaria Apr 28, 2015 11:29:26	An arrow held near to the tip isn't too different from a stiletto type of dagger - it's just a thin, sharp stabbing point with enough length to reach from above the collarbone into the heart.   As a DM myself, I'd absolutely allow an arrow to be used as an improvised dagger (but I would also still count it as a piece of ammunition used, so between arrows fired and used as melee weapons half would be broken or unrecoverable after the encounter).
#5 CraggleRock Apr 28, 2015 11:47:08	Well, assuming any attack cantrips (I think that might only be Sacred Flame for Clerics), the War Caster feat would allow you to cast spells as an attack.   The Tavern Brawler feat or a dash of Monk would make the unarmed attack a bit more appealing; the Monk in particular seems a good thematic choice for Sherlock Holmes, to give a touch of martial arts, and the prerequesite should already be met with Rogue and Cleric multiclass, the Unarmoured Defence should be quite nice too.   Maybe the DM would be open to the idea of using the bow as an improvised weapon.  As this would probably be Strength rather than Dexterity based, the player lacking proficiency and thus the proficiency bonus, I'd maybe even be tempted to allow it at 1d6, although a 1d4 "club" stats might seem more appropriate to some.
#6 DemoMonkey Apr 28, 2015 11:52:38	The character wouldn't be limited to an unarmed attack for their attack of opportunity. As per the rules on "Improvised Weapons":   An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the DM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet.   It's not a GREAT attack, but 1d4 is better than 1.
#7 Ralif_Redhammer Apr 28, 2015 13:11:14	While only getting one bonus action per round could limit the damage allowing ranged attacks of opportunity could do, I agree with AaronOfBarbaria that it could really change the game in some dramatic ways. Heck, D&D could end up as a cover-based shooter, and give an automatic advantage to any ranged opponent over a melee wielder.
#8 Danny_Montanny Apr 28, 2015 15:35:32	I've opened up OAs to shoves and grapples. True that it's not RAW, but I feel it's in the spirit of combat and makes for some interesting and dynamic options.
#9 Horwath Apr 29, 2015 9:10:21	I guess he could have a whack with the bow at someones face for 1d4.   or get one level of monk or tavern brawler and deal roundhouse AoO to the face.
(Reply to #8) Cooperjera	Danny_Montanny wrote:
(Reply to #10) Danny_Montanny	Cooperjera wrote:
#12 supreme_slayer Apr 29, 2015 16:20:02	A bow dealing more damage than a weapon designed for someone to use as a physical weapon is a bit baffling to me. They would need to put in money for something like the bow that character from Mortal Kombat has to use it as an effective melee weapon to me.
#13 MechaPilot Apr 29, 2015 17:04:45	I would be willing to allow the opportunity attack with an arrow fired from the bow.     @OP: With regard to your proposed triggers, I agree with Aaron that they seem inappropriate because they discourage the behavior one would rationally take to protect oneself from a ranged attacker.  I would suggest the following trigger.   "When you are weilding a ranged weapon, if an opponent both enters and leaves the 5 foot radius around you, when the enemy leaves the 5 foot space around you, as a reaction you may attempt a ranged attack against that opponent."   That rule would signify getting a shot at an enemy who runs past you, but it wouldn't trigger one if an enemy simply pulled back from melee range with you.
(Reply to #13) Cooperjera	MechaPilot wrote:
#15 MechaPilot Apr 29, 2015 19:45:35	Cooperjera wrote: