Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sclario Apr 21, 2015 0:30:51	Not so long ago (about a year ago) I started this other thread ( http://community.wizards.com/forum/whats-dm-do/threads/4074816 ) asking how could I made a playable Dog Sorcerer  for one of my players. We were running 4E at the time. My player wanted to experience being a dog in my campaign. Not a human turned into a dog, not a magical dog who could speak common... just a dog. A dog sorcerer (like an awakened dog). A year later, after the short campaign was a success and his Dog Sorcerer became quite famous in my D&D group, someone asked if I would run a campaign where PCs started as dogs. This is time would be quite different since I will be running 5E. And the PCs aren't normal dogs. These are humanoids that got turn into dogs by a curse. So they will maintain their counciousness. Since none of the books has Stats for dogs, (except for Wolfs and Mastiffs) I would like to ask for your opinion on how would be the best way to build these characters.   Just for the sake of flavor and fun, the PCs asked if they could be different breeds. Like one of them wants to be a "Doberman Ranger"  another one wants to run a "Bulldog Barbarian" and such.  What racial bonuses/proficiencies should they have? Maybe +2 Dex  +1 Cha for small dogs +2 Dex  +1 Str  for medium dogs  And still undecided if they could get on 2 "feet/paws" like a humanoid to use crosbowss and bows ( like this corgi )or they will be limited to use whatever they can pick up with their dog's mouth.     Thanks for the help.
#2 Kayal Apr 21, 2015 16:53:35	The idea is unique and I like it.   Based on the Mastiff in the book, I think a +2 Dex is a good way to go, but a +1 Chr doesn't seem right (the Mastiff in the book had a 7 Chr and I'm just not sure smaller dogs are more likeable than larger ones). Maybe a +1 Wis would make more sense?   As far as hands are concerned: there are some tasks that you might need opposable thumbs for, but you could allow them to roll with disadvantage for many others. It's kind of a judgement call.
(Reply to #2) Riley37	The TRPG "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" has extensive rules for animals which are in pure animal form, or have partially-human form and thus some fine manipulation, or which have fully converted into tool-using bipeds. A dog sorceror doesn't need to use tools, nor turn the pages of a book; I can also readily see a dog as a druid, or as an Assasin-path rogue. You might also find useful material in "Bunnies and Burrows", or one of the GURPs sourcebooks on aliens and thus on variant body shapes. Have you read or watched "Watership Down"? Crossbow: NOPE. Humans have trained dogs to do a LOT of tasks, but cocking, loading, aiming and firing a crossbow isn't one of them. Start with something closer to their abilities, such as brain surgery or solving Rubik's cube.
#4 CCS Apr 21, 2015 18:33:23	Start wirh the obvious: Determin what race/class/background/lv each PCs was before they were transformed. Generate stats as normal. Make a character sheet as normal. THEN turn them into dogs. Make a new character sheet. Keep each players Int/Wis/Cha as they generated it. Determine what type of dog bodies they're in & set their physical stats to fit that. These new physical stats do NOT have to have any basis upon their huminoid forms physical stats.... Beyond MAYBE being kind enough to allow them to speak/understand "dog" while in canine form? Make no special allowances for them to do huminoid things. Not even normal speach. Especially not something like crossbow use.... Just let the players figure out how to deal with the world via the physical limitations of the form they've specifically asked to be in. See what happens. For any druid players though? You should consider letting them use their wildshape ability to regain their original form. Same duration/# of uses limits except the only huminoid form available is specifically their own. Any stat increases from leveling up apply to both dog & original form.
#5 seti Apr 21, 2015 23:17:04	I think it's a cool idea. A while back, we did a 4e mini-campaign were everyone was humanoid animals (Not lycanthropes, but 'animals' who walked upright, and had opposable thumbs.)   It was a lot of fun generating the races, and special abilities.   I don't know how I'd run 'normal' animals as PCs, but it seems like you got a good idea on how to do it in 5e. Sounds fun.   PS: for weapons, think about mouth weapons...ie: bat'leth-looking double blades that can be held in the mouth, or metal canine replacements/caps, etc. Obviously, without thumbs, a dog could never wield a normal weapon. Another thing to consider is to give them bite damage that scales much like a Monk's unarmed strike, or like a Wizard's attack cantrip. That'd at least insure thier bite (if the only weapon available to them) will hold up over 20 levels.   PPS: Don't forget magic collars as potential treasure!
#6 supreme_slayer Apr 22, 2015 11:09:58	I think there is a very simple way to solve the issue. This is something my players have talked about before too. For one, you can just make different breeds of dogs have the same stats as other races. These aren't normal dogs, obviously, so they can have extra features besides normal dog ones. Then, restrict what options the players can have based on the dog form. They could hold a weapon in their jaws, but not much else. So they either one hand, two hand (same thing for them) or spellcast. A dog can't hold a bow, a shield, or two weapons at once. A dog monk, rogue, two hand warrior, and spellcaster all still work perfectly fine.
#7 Primarchx Apr 22, 2015 12:20:13	I think it works just fine for virtual table-top games!
#8 lall Apr 22, 2015 12:40:30	This made me think of this:   http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m22s&page=2?The-NotSoCreative-Player#73