I am new to being a DM. As a matter of fact I just completed my 2nd session ever last night. My players are happy with the campaigns I have created for them and seem to be enjoying it. I have one player who has never played. Funny enough he is a rogue. The problem is that he keeps wanting to go off and do his own thing. The reason behind this is he is trying to find any treasure or items to keep for himself. He is use to playing board games and has the mindset of "winning" It has started to frustrate the other players and they have voiced their concerns. I don't want our game to play like a board game. What can I do? Thanks!
This is something resolved outside the context of the game via a direct, polite conversation. Everyone sits down and discusses the issue, what to do about it, and comes to a compromise. The main thing here is to get on the same page with what kind of game you are playing together. RPGs suffer from this thing where five to six people can all agree to play a game like D&D and, during play, everyone sets about playing as if they are playing different games. You need to decide collectively what game it is you're playing before continuing.
The Basic Rules tell us some interesting things about the game we're playing right on page 2. The "win" condition of D&D is (1) have a good time and (2) create an exciting, memorable story as a result of play. If we achieve those two goals during a session, we win! How do we work toward these goals though? Easy: We make choices that are reasonably consistent with what is established about our characters and that keep those goals in mind. If we make choices that don't lead to a good time or create exciting, memorable stories as a result of play, then that is a bad choice even if it is consistent with our characterization. Note that we're not talking about individuals creating good times for just themselves. This is a group activity and everyone other than ourselves is the audience - our choices need to be entertaining for them, too. It sounds like the rogue player's choices are falling short on this score.
So have that conversation, preferrably in person rather than via text. Check out "11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer" and "You Are Not Your Character" in my signature. Consider sharing those with your group if you find them applicable and useful. Good luck!
I will second iserith's advice, and add only this:
Nip this in the bud quickly - gaming without everyone on the same page results, in my experience, in the absolute worst sorts of game, loaded with people trying to one-up eachother and get in the last jab rather than actually working together to have a fun time. Nothing but things like "his character robbed mine? I'll kill his," and "his character killed mine? I'll make a new character that can kill his character and show him!" or complete lack of interest in playing at all lies down the path of not agreeing what is and isn't acceptable in-character behavior.
I agree. Talk to him off line, explain it's a group endeavor.
That or have his character eaten by wandering troll while he's off on his lonesome. 
thanks guys this really helps. I figured that is what I would have to do. I attribute it to him never having played a game like D&D before. If he still doesnt listen I may just take OoftaMeg's advice lololol.
Its also so cliche that the Rogue is 'so greedy they will betray their allies'..... Heck, a fighter or mage could be just as greedy, and want it all for themselves. Or maybe the cleric starts charging for healing....
Being able to disarm a trap and open a lock does not mean you are uncontrollably greedy, nor does it mean you are compelled to double-cross your allies.
Great advice above, but I want to stress that D&D is a collaboration: everybody plays, everybody should have fun. Don't let one person ruin it for everybody -- or else you may find yourself without a group!
If this player is adversarial (hopefully he's not, and is simply a little 'misguided') then it might help to have the group deal with it together, not just a one-on-one.
I don't know: what does everybody else think? Is a one-on-one better? Does having everybody sit down to discuss the issue cause the one person to become defensive, in your experiences? I get nervous that the player might think it's only the DM with the problem.
DungeonKrusher wrote:
I actually write up a short "campaign guidelines" memo for all my players before we start a new game. In the memo I outline some rules, of which these points relate to player character behaviour:
- No evil alignments are allowed;
- Overtly evil actions are also not allowed (this includes torture of anyone for any reason, harming or killing innocents, or harming, killing, or stealing from the group).
And if anyone disagrees with those points, that's cool, they can find another campaign. In the game, if anyone tries any of those actions, I simply disallow it.
You say the other players voiced their concerns - to him or just to you?
Big difference there.
I prefer to let role-play, play out. If the other players dislike what he is doing, let them stop the behavior. "God" need not descend and whammy the player into submission.
Once the player start taking action-the message is usually received.
If the player is just a disruption and ca't be delat with, removal is best for gameplay-but usually not for the real life relationships.
Beldak_Serpenthelm wrote:
pauldanielj2 wrote:
I always liked the analogy of a canoe for players. Your all in the canoe heading the same direction. Now you can crack jokes with each other in the canoe, you can even have disagreements, but what you can't do is paddle in your own direction.
Also keep in mind that players playing a rogue usually want to do rogueish things, like swiping a little booty from themselves. As long as you can keep it to a minimal, I'd humor him or her a bit. Let them pick pocket a few passerbys when they're in town. Start with a DC of 10 and tell them that after three failures the local constable will be alerted to their thievery and a 1 gets them caught red handed. Bump the DC up each time and after two fails, (if they're sensible) they'll call it good. Don't give them a ton for it, maybe a few cp and sp, just enough to enjoy a pint and dinner knowing that they got it for free. For snitching things in dungeons again, as long as it doesn't derail the party objectives and it's not overly valuable let him pocket a couple things when he's scouting. Just make the little items interesting, "You find a soapstone statue of an eladrin sinking into what appears to be a pool of acid."
Betraying your friends is not a 'rogueish' thing.... it is betrayal. A fighter is really good at killing things, but I don't expect him to occasionally kill party members. I don't expect a thief to steal from party members.
Picking pockets in town is a different matter.
But when working together to clear a dungeon... we are working together, using our skills for the *common* success. If the rogue plans on using his skills for his gain and not others.... then he better be ready to kill his share of bad guys, and absorb his share of the attacks. Because the Fighter may decide to use his skills for his gain and not to help the rogue....Or the Cleric may decide to use his spells to heal himself, but not the rogue, or... etc....
redhollywood wrote:
The players did voice their concerns in game and towards the end I think he was understanding more of the concept. I don't want to be "god" and force him to play a certain way. The problem wasn't as much as him going off on his own as he was taking control and deciding for the group what they were going to do and trying to actively keep them from finding stuff first so he could try to keep it for himself. He wasn't even subtle about it. The guy is very competitive and D&D to me is not a competitive game. The cave I built needed teamwork to unlock several puzzles I had constructed and he was severely slowing down the party. I think the other players handled it pretty well but I didn't know if it would be necessary to speak with him from the point of view that his approach to the game wasn't vibing with the other players.
If he wants to go off on his own well, that's his option. Free will is a critical aspect of an RPG. On the other hand, he needs to accept the reprucussions of his choice. If he ends up in a deadly situation without the backup of his team, he also has to accept that he's going to die. Every form of refuge has its price.
Would I be right in thinking that the rogue player has grown up playing single-player computer games (Skyrim comes to mind, but there are many others) where "beating the game" and "collectiing as miuch loot as possible" is seen by some as "what the game is about" ? If so, that would account for the problem. You will need to explain to him that D&D is a different kind of game.
Coredump00 wrote:
DungeonKrusher wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
DungeonKrusher wrote:
In an attempt to not let this thread be stolen by kender ...
I think that most people that DM sooner or later run into "that guy". The one who doesn't really understand the cooperative nature of D&D, and always wants to go off on their own.
I understand you don't want to be "god" but the group needs to have a consensus of what's fun for the group and ultimately it's up to the DM to figure out how to make that happen.
There are a few ways of dealing with it:
- Write up something that sets expectations. For example, I've had documents that specify that I don't want evil characters and what races I allow (e.g. drow PCs don't make any sense in my campaign world).
- Talk to the person off-line and let them know how their behavior is affecting the group. It takes a while for some people to understand how D&D works. This doesn't mean the character can't strike off on their now and then or pocket the occasional bauble, just that it needs to be reined in a little bit.
- Have the characters deal with it in game. If the rogue always seems to come out with more money than the rest of the group, have the other players stage an "intervention" where they explain that the offending character can either change their ways or find a different line of work. You have to be careful with this one - you don't want the players to have hurt feelings and you don't want armed confrontation between PCs (or players either I suppose). It has the advantage that it's a realistic response a party would have - share the loot evenly or leave. Make it clear that this is in-character and that the group is asking the character to leave, not the player.
- Let the player have fun, but try to minimize the impact on the rest of the group. I once had a player with a rogue with similar tendencies and on one occasion had him make a deal with a shady character. After risking his life he was given his reward - a chest of gold. The chest turned out to be gold-foil wrapped chocolate and the shady character was an avatar of Loki. Then again, the rogue also was eventually killed when he went on one of his side adventures.
- A room full of mimics that look like treasure chests.
Beldak_Serpenthelm wrote:
In the campaign I'm running now, my son is playing the rogue. He is playing him as a curious guy who likes to scout ahead. He doesn't necessarily steal or loot or do anything bad; he just will slip ahead of the group to scout, but get distracted by exploration sometimes. On occassion, he'll make me split the session to run what's happening with him, and what's happening with the others.
One time he popped through a teleporting area he was exploring without telling the others. The others stayed behind not knowing what exactly happened to him. At the other location, the rogue saw that there were similar runes so he could guess which rune to press to get back to the party, but instead he decided to sneak out of the area to have a look. He rolled poorly and when he stepped out of the small alcove, he drew the attention of a medusa and a flesh golem. He failed his save against the medusa gaze, but he used an inspiration point and made his 2nd roll. The flesh golem slammed him once and nearly knocked him unconscious and swiped at him again, but narrowly missed. The rogue felt fear so he disengaged and ran back to press the rune he thought would get him back to the party. He pressed the right rune.
Now, he still likes to scout ahead, but he coordinates much more with the rest of the party.
Sometimes, just a little fear changes the way the player plays his PC.
In our game, everything worked out great. The others didn't resent him for going ahead. They actually liked seeing what happened to him (as players - the PCs of course had no idea what was happening until his character came back frightened and bloody).
redhollywood wrote: