Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Gnollbane Jul 09, 2015 10:39:15	My PCs are in a guild that provides them lodging and food in turn for completing missions. However, this kind of makes it so they don't have to pay lifestyle expenses (kind of a blunder on my part), and I'm afraid they'll end up with too much money (I don't want my players buying plate armor at level 3!). Does anyone know of rules or have any homebrew ideas that make it so the PCs still have to spend money every so often? Thanks for the input.
#2 iserith Jul 09, 2015 11:03:28	I would suggest (1) creating reasons for them to spend cash during the missions you're offering that provide them with shortcuts or bonuses of some kind and (2) working with the players to establish attainable (if far reaching) goals for their characters outside of experiencing the missions you're presenting. Does the fighter want to establish a stronghold at some point? Will the wizard buy up rare tomes and build a wing on the Big City's library? How about the rogue - perhaps founding a thieves' guild is up his or her alley? Will the cleric build places of worship or provide food and clothing for the needy?    Once the players have established these goals, ask how they hope to achieve them. Price it out accordingly. Provide an in-game benefit for doing it. Inspiration is an easy give, but consider also other benefits like renown or bonuses to interactions with certain types of people.
#3 Ralif_Redhammer Jul 09, 2015 12:03:09	Since they’re members of a guild, I’d make them pay guild dues. What kind of guild are they members of?
#4 shintashi Jul 09, 2015 12:11:11	Gnollbane wrote:
(Reply to #3) Gnollbane	Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
#6 Awakened_Gazebo Jul 10, 2015 1:29:42	Take it from their treasure! Ok, I dont have my books at hand, but what amount of money are we talking about here? something like a goldcoin a day for each member? Now I dont know how long your adventures are, or how much time passes between them. But Even if they could only do one level each month, (for the first few levels) you are looking at 90 GP until lvl 3... I dont see it as that gamechanging.   Here are some tweaks though anyway: Have a few of the NPCs demanding a bit of coin for information now and then Instead of having the defeating gobling have 5 pieces of art worth 25GP each, let them only have 4. Give more "flavourful" spells as scrolls for the wizard to copy in his spellbook, them them be party friendly, that way he can convince the rest of the party to chip in on magical ink etc. Have them spend money on learning new languages and skills. Its in the Phb, I think it costs around a gold a a day, for 200 days. Maybe they could gain a bit of prestige in their guild by donating some cash to it. When their status is high enough they might get bonusses like advantage on persuasion or history when dealing with guildmembers or visiting the guild library and so on. As iserith mentioned let them have some larger goals, I think the DMG has some suggestions on that part.   Just remember we are talking about something like 3-400 gold during a whole in-game year, Its not a lot of money for adventures.
#7 Ralif_Redhammer Jul 10, 2015 7:27:10	Sounds cool! In addition to guild dues. I’d add weaponry upkeep and repair fees for the guild. Also, maybe The Dawnfire start one-upping them with expenses. Things like getting fancy clothes, statues of them built in town squares, their own line of branded high-top boots (okay, just kidding on that last one). Little things that make the Ebonshields look bad. Or maybe the rivals start bribing officials, so that the Ebonshields have to bribe right back, for fear of losing allies in the fight. Or maybe, since they’re in charge of defense, they have to pay for things like walls and catapults for the area.     Gnollbane wrote:
(Reply to #7) Rhym	Really, who cares? It's in the order of being upset you have you pay for a plastic bag at the supermarket. Living expenses are negligible compared to the standard income of an adventurer, unless you make up your own that deviate from the DMG.   It is unlikely keeping track of rations/living expenses adds anything of value to your game from a players perspective either. At least as long as they are focused on adventuring and not micromanaging an inn or that kind of thing.
#9 DMOny Jul 10, 2015 8:40:00	I think just adding more compelling reasons to spend their gold is a better option than dismantling the guild or removing the food/lodging.  If they are engaged with that portion of the campaign, why remove it?  By that, I mean that they are living up to their guild responsibilities, performing services and attending guild functions.   I'd encourage actually building more into the guild to make it a more functioning, living organization.  For example, someone mentioned guild dues that could go towards the lodging and food, as well as guild supplies of bandages, alchemical supplies, etc.  You could encourage donations to "charitable organizations" or provide occassions for PC's to assist communities in need financially by potentially awarding inspiration points.  Encourage them to invest their gold in struggling businesses that the guild relies on or that will provide minor supplies in return.   Granted, if the players just see the guild as their free lodging and food and aren't really all that interested in the guild itself then those ideas probably won't work.  However, if the guild has an actual presence in the area by performing services to the community, scouting for monster/enemy activity, or any kind of involvement in the world and the PC's are actively partaking in those activities, there are money sinks that you can implement and improve their experience in the campaign.
#10 jocanuck Jul 10, 2015 10:51:32	Gnollbane wrote:
#11 Gnollbane Jul 10, 2015 13:54:19	I like these ideas, but how do I put them into effect without it seeming like an obvious shakedown to the players? I don't want to just start an adventure one day with "Ok, your guild needs X gold for X reason, so hand over X gold".
#12 DDIAteMyUsername Jul 10, 2015 14:12:10	For your original question, in the RAW, only certain backgrounds exempt players from lifestyle expenses: Acolyte, Entertainer, Folk Hero, Outlander, and Sailor (possibly Noble, depending on how far you want to push the vague description). But most of these have some conditions: Acolyte provides support for only the PC (PHB 127). Entertainer provides a lifestyle for only the PC, and requires the PC to perform every night (PHB 130). Folk Hero appears to provide shelter for the party, but not food (except perhaps to recuperate)  (PHB 131). Guild Artisan provides benefits only to members, and requires each member to pay 5 gp per month (PHB 133). Outlander gives the party food, but no shelter (PHB 136). Sailor provides free passage for the party, which you can interpret to include food and shelter, but only while on the ship (PHB 139). Everyone else has to pay lifestyle expenses (PHB 187).   In the DMG, certain downtime activities require the characters to spend money or constantly perform tasks on activities that might provide food and shelter (DMG 127-131).   But the bigger issue appears to be that the PCs have too much money and therefore too much access to things before you think they should. That's understandable.   The first thing I would do is talk to your players. Find out what they intend to do with all of their money. Some may be saving to buy something special, like a weapon they saw in the DMG. Some may just save it to roll around in. Some may spend it like a drunken sailor.   Once you know what they want to do, make some quests that help them reach that goal, or to make it a fun challenge to spend, save,or recover their money. Or, if they don't have anything in mind, then think up some ways to relieve them of their treasure.   This thread has some great ideas. The guild leadership changes, and the new leader requires dues or asks for bribes to use the guild's resources. Or he runs off with the treasury. All of the local armorers or weaponsmiths could be out of what the PCs want to buy, so that they have to take an expensive journey to find the item. As they're about to spend their money, they get a reliable rumor that a better version of (whatever they want to buy) is available somewhere. Etc.
#13 Hebitsuikaza Jul 10, 2015 14:20:56	Gnollbane wrote:
#14 FrogReaver Jul 10, 2015 22:42:25	I'm confused with why a PC getting plate a little early is so bad?  Doesn't 5e have bounded accuracy?
#15 Saeviomagy Jul 12, 2015 22:42:44	Plate is +1 ac over the nearest alternative. It really doesn't matter.   Feel free to pour gold on your players. At worst they can go and buy armies and businesses and start really getting invested in your world.
#16 Ralif_Redhammer Jul 13, 2015 8:18:06	Maybe do an adventure that involves a lot of collateral damage to the guild assets?   Gnollbane wrote:
#17 akr71 Jul 13, 2015 9:26:37	The wizard in my group has discovered that spell components can be quite costly.  Some others are not costly or rare, but the party is on a mission where time is of the essence, so they can't go exploing every single cave looking for bat guano.  The rest of the party has loaned/given her loads of cash to ensure her continued spell casting services.  "Here take this 200gp and go to the local wizard guild/component shop and let us get back on the road, already!"
#18 Warmonger10 Jul 17, 2015 0:01:51	I never do living expenses... It's a hassle to track. And money is only worth somethign if there is something buy. Don't want them to have plate? Well there aren't any balcksmiths talented enough for that in this here town...