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| #1LeugrenJan 01, 2015 9:21:04 | **Spoiler Alert**
I'm looking for some second opinions from other experienced DMs. During our last LMoP session, the 3rd-level party mowed through most of Castle Cragmaw, leaving a trail of carnage and destruction in their wake. They came in through the postern gate, slaughtered everyone in the banquet hall, got the drop on the goblins in the archer post, set off the collapsing ceiling trap in the main foyer, made short work of the goblins and hobgoblins which poured out of the northern archer post and barracks, and then finally, they took out the shaman, his two cronies, and his grick companion within the goblin shrine. At this point, the party abruptly declared that they wanted to take a short 1 hour rest within the goblin shrine, though they still had plenty of resources and HP as a whole (the barbarian was the one who declared he had to take a rest--I believe it was because he was down to half HP and didn't want to face the big-bad with less than full HP).
I'm a bit torn as to what the consequences of this decision should be. Up to now, the party has had the element of surprise on their side. The only creatures left alive in the castle are the owlbear, the two hobgoblins right across the hall in area 12, King Grol, the doppleganger disguised as the drow, and Gundren Rockseeker. With all of the battles not to mention the ceiling collapse, would any of these survivors have become alerted to the party's presence? If not, would any of the survivors take a casual stroll down the hallway to use the privy, notice that the postern gate is open, and then proceed to discover all of the bodies littering the banquet hall while the party was taking their rest? If they did become alerted, what should their reactions be? In particular, what would King Grol and the doppleganger do with Gundren? Would they kill him outright and then try to sneak out with the map? Or do I just let the party take their rest without any consequences, letting King Grol and the doppleganger continue their conversation over Gundren's protrate form for 1 hour, and letting the hobgoblin guards stand at attention in area 12 as though everything was rosy with the world?
What would you do? Any advice would be very much appreciated. I need to run the next session tomorrow, and I'm still torn on how to handle this.
Thanks in Advance,
--Leugren |
| #2iserithJan 01, 2015 9:41:43 | I'd say about halfway through the rest, I'd have the two hobgoblins sneak up and try to spy on the PCs to get an idea of what's left of their opponents. Telegraph this accordingly to the players so they can decide if they want to do anything about it. (What they do about it might be too strenuous to allow for the rest to be completed.) If left alone, the hobgoblins report back to King Grol who tells them to release the owlbear and lead it into the PCs. The hobgoblins race into the shrine with the owlbear fast on their heels. When it sees the sedentary PCs, it takes its rage out on them as the hobgoblins keep on running (if they can).
Meanwhile, King Grol and Vyerith come to an agreement on the price for the map. Grol gets his money and flees into Neverwinter Wood (along with the two hobgoblins if they survived). Vyerith takes Gundren into the forest as well and tries to find a secluded spot to question him before killing him. The flight of these two parties should also be telegraphed in some way, perhaps with the classic fresh tracks in the muck outside the castle. The trails lead in different directions which give the players some choices to make. If they go after one group, they lose the other. If they split up, they can catch up to both, but this might mean a tougher fight. Gundren is toast in two hours or so, so time can be used as a means of applying pressure (such as using it up due to failed ability checks while tracking or the like). |
| #3transcendantviewerJan 01, 2015 9:46:13 | If it's really such a huge problem that they maintain surprise, try to hint at it. If they don't get it, start rolling % for each of the baddies. Certain roll, they wander onto a swathe of blood and horror. Other results, they carry about their business or even do something else entirely, but remain blissfully unaware. That's what I'd do. |
| #4pauldanielj2Jan 01, 2015 10:32:32 | I like to imagine the most realistic scenario possible, given the factors at hand. The adventure site description tells you where the monsters are by default, but is it realistic to expect they'd all stay huddled in their respective rooms while the castle is invaded? Likely not.
I had a similar situation with the Red Brand hideout. The party made it though about 2/3 of the site, and after getting banged up in the fight with the nothic they decided to retreat back to town for a long rest. The wizard, 4 redbrands, and 3 bugbears were left in the hideout. I figured that within an hour or so, even if they hadn't been alerted to the sounds of fighting, someone would discover that the hideout had been invaded. After all, there are changes of guard, people going out to use the bathroom, or whatever; so if the party leaves a trail of corpses in their wake, it's going to be discovered at some point. So I decided that once the invasion of the hideout was discovered, Glasstaff would gather the remaining redbrands and bugbears and send them down into town to take revenge. In the middle of their long rest, the party was woken up by the sounds of townspeople screaming as bugbears charged about setting their houses on fire. In the end, it was a more difficult fight, because the party didn't get the benefit of a long rest and they had to fight all the bad guys at once, rather than just finishing the hideout when they had the chance. Plus, it taught them a valuable lesson about "kicking the hornets' nest": Even though they won the fight, the townspeople blamed them for all the damage that was caused.
In your situation with Cragmaw Castle, I'd use a similar approach. If the party is just chilling out for an hour, they're certain to be discovered. Hobgoblins are not stupid -- they're very disciplined and militaristic. It's unrealistic to think they could let a hostile force invade their castle and still not know about it after an hour. What I'd do is, after about 1/2 an hour passes, have the hobgoblins herd the owlbear (driving it using long spears or polearms) into the shrine where the party is resting. Note that the party won't have been able to finish their rest or regain hit points. I'd have the hobgoblins hang back using bows to make things even more difficult as the owl bear attacks, and I'd up the owl bear's hit points to maximum (91 or so). Depending on how the fight went, I might even have the bug bear king show up to make things really fun. It should go without saying that the dwarf prisoner doesn't survive any of this. Any party so stupid they'd halt a rescue mission like that to take a short rest doesn't deserve for it to be a success. |
| #5LeugrenJan 01, 2015 10:35:27 |
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| #6LeugrenJan 01, 2015 10:48:46 |
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| #7LeugrenJan 01, 2015 10:51:10 |
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| #8iserithJan 01, 2015 11:36:46 |
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| #9LeugrenJan 01, 2015 11:53:02 |
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| #10BRJNJan 01, 2015 13:01:26 | If the collapsing ceiling trap makes noise, everybody else in the building should be sending somebody with orders to find out who did THAT and see if the situation is well-in-hand. When word gets back "Trouble Boss", they prepare a counter-attack. Maybe they wait until the sounds of fighting stop in the belief that the other guards and soldiers are doing their job vs intruders. But if it gets quiet ... too quiet ... and no messenger comes in to give the all-clear - then I'm thinking that staying frozen in place is A Bad Plan; SOMEBODY just tore through all my subordinates ! Find out what's left and prepare accordingly.
If the PCs are dumb / overconfident enough to stop for a Rest in the middle of an operation, well, not every wannabee Hero makes the grade...
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| #11LeugrenJan 01, 2015 17:59:59 |
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| #12iserithJan 01, 2015 18:19:11 | Sounds good. I'd leave off the Survival check to notice the tracks initially. Then I'd have the Redbrands arrive and be spotted at sufficient remove from the party that they have a meaningful choice: Deal with them now (at the potential cost of additional resources) or try to get ahead of them. Then I might call for a Survival check (depends on their approach in context) to follow the tracks and stay ahead and/or lose the Redbrands. Success means they do; failure means they either lose the tracks and the Redbrands or stay on the path but the Redbrands catch up. Or something like that.
Somehow, the countdown till Gundren is killed by Vyerith needs to be telegraphed otherwise the players might not be fully aware of the stakes they are playing for. Maybe one of the hobgoblins shooting arrows during the owlbear fight taunts the PCs about it being only a matter of time before the "drow" does in the dwarven prisoner. |
| #13LeugrenJan 01, 2015 19:00:54 |
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| #14THEMNGMNTJan 01, 2015 22:43:13 | I like it! Please let us know how it turns out. |
| #15NoonJan 02, 2015 1:46:17 | Do you think the NPC's would kill Gundran?
Then just kill him.
If the players care about doing it right, then they care about accepting when they did it wrong.
If they don't care about doing it 'right', then it doesn't matter. |
| #16LeugrenJan 02, 2015 11:41:14 |
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| #17LeugrenJan 03, 2015 7:07:25 | Gundren is dead!
In spite of the fact that I had one of the hobgoblins loudly telegraph Gundren's impending doom at the hands of Vyerith, the party decided to take a short rest anyway after killing the owlbear and the two hobgoblins, as though they had all the time in the world. I think they were all a bit shocked to find Gundren's mutilated corpse at the end of the forest trail that they were following. I guess none of them are used to actually having to face the consequences of their in-game decisions. This event put them on notice that we are playing a more realistic brand of game than they are used to, and that they need to start using theiir brains.
All told, the group is really a bit of a mess. It takes them a minimum of half an hour to decide on any course of action, and their decisions are often bad ones. The main thing they're good at is battle tactics which is how they manage to stay alive. With this particular group, I am normally on the other of the screen paying close attention to what the DM is saying and running herd on the rest of the party. With me as DM, they seem to lack a strong voice to take up the reins of leadership. The one guy who could serve as a voice of reason gets so frustrated with his teammates that he just sort of shuts down and waits for someone else to make decisions. Oh well, at least they seem to be having a good time!
I'll provide a more detailed writeup tomorrow. |
| #18iserithJan 03, 2015 9:43:05 |
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| (Reply to #17)Rhenny |
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| #20guachiJan 03, 2015 11:27:20 | Nice write-up!
My players were shocked when Vyerith shanked Gundren. They had an easy enough time rescueing Gundren's associate from the Goblins and rescuing the family from the Redbrands (but Glasstaff escaped). It was a three man party, two of whom were new to ropleplaying. The reaction from the two newbies was immediate. Before I could even complete my sentence describing Gundren's horrific death, the Cleric had shouted "I cast healin g word" and the Barbarian "I rush over and use my healing kit". One benefit of not thinking mechanically is those two had been describing what they wanted to do and let me adjudicate the action.
Another group did what your players did and took a rest inside Cragmaw Hideout with Redbrands still about nearby. They rested after they tripped the pit trap. One of them even asked me "Can we take a short rest here?" Yeah... uhh... go right ahead! About 20 minutes later they were attacked. I even had some decent tactics, too. But it was a party of heavily armored characters in melee at low level. |
| #21LeugrenJan 03, 2015 18:54:02 | Full Writeup
As I mentioned in my original post, the party had decided to take a short rest within the goblin shrine after mowing down most of Cragmaw Castle's defenders like so many stalks of wheat. The dragonborn cleric decided to take this opportunity to reconsecrate the altar to Bahamut. I wanted to attach some significance to this event, so I improvised a bit. As he knelt before the altar in a deep meditative trance, a beam of silver light descended from the ceiling and struck the altar with a brilliant flash. When his vision cleared, he saw a tall and imposing dragonborn warrior princess standing atop the altar and holding a silver shield. She extended the shield to him and stated, "Take this, Chamnpion of Bahamut. You will need it in your trials to come." He reached for the shield and took it. The warrior princess then faded from view as suddenly as she had appeared. As he stood there examining the shield, the altar exploded and a hobgoblin ghoul with a long prehensile tongue emerged from the wreckage, immediately launching itself at the cleric.
The dragonborn was the only one who saw any of this, of course. As far as the rest of the party members were concerned, the dragonborn was still kneeling quietly before the fully intact altar. At this moment, they heard a loud screech that shook the rafters, and the east door leading to the dark hall exploded inward. The party members standing nearest to the door saw an enraged owlbear enter the chamber, being prodded forward by a pair of hobgoblins with longspears. One of the hobgoblins yelled out something in a loud mocking tone of voice. The ranger, who spoke goblin, translated it for the rest of the party as follows:
"If you came here hoping to rescue that dwarven sheep shagger, then you can die knowing that you've failed miserably! The drow bitch has taken him into the forest and I heard her mention she was planning to lop his balls off and slit his throat. They are loooong gone by now, so you are too late! Bwahahaha!"
What followed was a pair of simultaneous battles. While the dragonborn cleric was taking on the ghoul, the rest of the party (a barbarian, a moon druid, a ranger, and a fighter/warlock) were struggling with the owlbear and the two hobgoblins. Over the course of his battle, the cleric discovered that the silver shield granted him a +1 bonus to AC and advantage on saving throws against the ghoul's paralytic strike. Even with advantage, he did manage to get paralyzed once, though he made his saving throw in the next round after receiving a serious mauling from the ghoul. It was a close battle, but the cleric came out victorious. The rest of the party also prevailed against the owlbear and the two hobgoblins. When the dragonborn emerged from his trance, he still carried the visible marks of his battle with the ghoul and he found the silver shield lying on the intact altar. With the ritual to reconsecrate the altar completed, I explained to him that the altar was now hallowed, and that he could select one of the options associated with the hallow spell as a permanent effect centered on the altar. He selected the daylight effect.
The party deliberated briefly as to what they should do next, and they all decided that they needed to complete their short rest. I explained that, because their prior attempt at a short rest had been interrupted, they woulld have to start a new short rest, which would take an hour. They agreed unanimously that a short rest was needed, so I let them take it. While they were resting, a couple of things happened. First, Vyerith completed her brutal interrogation of Gundren and then slit his throat. Second, the Redbrands arrived at Cragmaw Castle. Not wanting any trouble with King Grol, Glasstaff decided to post a pair of guards to watch the entrances to the castle from the north and south. He instructed these guards to report back immediately if they saw anyone leaving the castle. He then retreated back into the forest with the rest of his men to set up camp, as it was getting late.
The halfling rogue, having succeeded at all of his Stealth checks was hidden behind a nearby tree and overheard all of Glasstaff's instructions. He knew that his party was in Cragmaw Castle, and he decided that they needed to be warned. Accordingly, he snuck up behind the guard who had been posted to watch the south entrance to the castle and shanked him. He didn't actually do enough damage to kill the guard, but I didn't want to ruin the moment for him, so I declared that the guard fell dead. With the path to the castle now open, the halfling crept forward and entered through the open postern gate. Seeing the bright light emanating from the shrine room up ahead, he made his way there and was reunited with his comrades. He explained that they had been tracked here by Glasstaff and 10 of his cronies, and that Glasstaff was planning to ambush them when they came out.
At this point, the party began to debate their next course of action. Most of them agreed that they should go after Gundren, and that they should try to avoid Glasstaff and his crew if at all possible. Accordingly, they left the castle through the postern gate to the south, knowing that the halfling had taken out the guard who was supposed to be watching that exit. They then proceeded to work their way around the castle to the west, looking for any tracks that might have been left by the drow and the dwarf. When they reached the main entrance to the castle without finding any tracks, another debate broke out. They knew that there was another guard posted in the woods to the north, and they were afraid that they would be seen. The halfling volunteered to try to locate the guard and ambush him, the same way that he had ambushed the first guard. Unfortunately, while he rolled really well on his Stealth checks, he failed his Perception checks to locate the guard. He returned to the party shortly afterwards to report his failure, and also to propose a new plan.. Under this plan, he would don a red cloak and pretend to be the guard that he had murdered, hoping to lure Glasstaff and his cronies in a different direction so that the party could make their escape.
In his new disguise, he approached the Redbrand camp, and in his best imitation of the dead guard's voice, yelled out, "They've left the castle and are trying to escape. If we go this way, we can cut them off." He rolled high enough on his Deception roll that the Redbrands started to follow him. He didn't take any particular precautions to avoid being seen by them, however, so as soon as they laid eyes him, one of them yelled out, "Hey, Scabbers, why are you walking on your knees. That's not Scabbers! Get him!" The halfling started to run like crazy, and the Redbrands started to give chase, but Glasstaff, sensing a trap, immediately ordered them to halt.
The halfling returned to the party again to report his latest failure. The other membeers of the party just shrugged their shoulders and declared that they were going to continue circling the castle to the north searching for tracks. As they approached the concealed entrance to the ruined tower, they found two separate sets of fresh tracks leading off in separate directions. The ranger, who was in his chosen terrain and whose favored enemy was goblinoids, immediately identified one set of tracks belonging to a bugbear and a wolf. The other set of tracks seemed to belong to an elf and a stumbling dwarf.
The party followed the second set of tracks for about 20 minutes before coming upon the mutilated corpse of Gundren Rockseeker lying facedown at the base of a tree. After standing there in shocked silence for several seconds, they heard a voice coming from up the trail where they had just come. "Gentlemen! Please lay down your weapons and give yourselves up! We have you surrounded. Although you have inconvienced me quite a bit of late, I am feeling maganimous this evening. This needn't end in bloodshed if you simply do what I say!"
TO BE CONTINUED LATER... |
| #22RhennyJan 03, 2015 14:17:13 | ooohhh...very exciting. |
| #23THEMNGMNTJan 03, 2015 16:54:46 | Well done! |
| #24LeugrenJan 03, 2015 18:40:04 |
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| #25LeugrenJan 03, 2015 18:40:32 |
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| #26LeugrenJan 03, 2015 19:06:02 |
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| #27DaveDashJan 04, 2015 18:14:50 | ..There's also Speak With Dead on Gundren's corpse as an option.
The spell might cost em though (and not neccessarily in gold). He also might not tell them anything if he was peeved with them before his death. |
| #28LeugrenJan 05, 2015 3:57:46 |
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| (Reply to #17)Coredump00 |
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| #30LeugrenJan 05, 2015 9:14:49 |
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| #31iserithJan 05, 2015 9:18:07 |
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| #32LeugrenJan 05, 2015 9:51:10 |
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| #34iserithJan 05, 2015 9:56:38 |
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| #35LeugrenJan 05, 2015 10:07:37 |
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| #36iserithJan 05, 2015 10:19:48 |
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| #37LeugrenJan 05, 2015 10:24:41 |
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| (Reply to #34)Coredump00 |
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