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| #1ZaxFahrenheit200Mar 25, 2015 13:33:52 | Hi All,
A while back I posted about trying to balance out the meh standard human with the op variant human. I've come up with a possible solution and am thinking of implementing it in my game, but would like some more mathematically-inclined folks' evaluation/feedback.
Ability Score Increase: You gain +1 to either STR, DEX or CON, and +1 to either INT, WIS or CHA. Additionally, you gain +2 to a third ability score, of your choice.
Versatile: You gain three skill profiiciencies, tool proficiencies, shield proficiency, light armor, simple weapons, or any combination thereof (i.e., deception, animal handling and light armor)
(DM's note: I'm trying with the above to have the half-elf's proficiency in two skills of choice make more thematic sense. All elves gain + proficiency to one skill [perception], but humans are supposed to be the biggest jacks-of-all-trades in D&D, yet have no bonus skill proficiencies without going variant).
Also, I'm looking to include a river elf subrace in my game; the race is known worldwide for traveling narrow waterways and trading, and are welcome in most civilized communities. Would appreciate feedback here, too.
In addition to the elf racial traits, river elves are granted additional bonuses as follows.
Ability Score Increase: You gain +1 to CHA.
Discerning Wit, Sailing Ship: You gain proficiency in the Insight skill and with navigator's tools.
Cross the Water Far and Wide: Having lived on or near waterways your entire life, you are an expert swimmer and can swim at a speed equal to your walking speed, and may add your proficiency bonus to any checks related to swimming. Additionally, when determining suffocation by drowning, you may hold your breath for a number of minutes equal to 2 + your CON mod (minimum 90 seconds), and can survive for a number of rounds equal to double your CON mod.
River Elf Weapon Training: You gain proficiency with scimitars, rapiers, shortbows and longbows.
Thoughts?
(Edit: got rid of the extra language for river elves, and made them have a more definitive aquatic ability) |
| #2AaronOfBarbariaMar 25, 2015 21:17:46 | I think that your human sub-race is more mechanically potent than both the human and human variant in the PHB. You are effectively taking the human variant, removing the single skill proficiency in exchange for a floating +2 ability increase, and then only trimming the potency by way of assigning very mild limiters as to which effective feats can be taken and where ability score boosts can be assigned (compare a normal human variant character wanting +1 Strength and +1 Constitution to your version, which can have +2 Strength, +1 Constitution, and then also +1 Wisdom - the latter doesn't look like a descrease in power).
As for the river elf sub-race, I don't think there are any serious issues, but would like a bit of clarity on what is meant to happen when a river elf actually has proficiency in athletics; do they still only add their proficiency bonus to swimming rolls once, or are they meant to add it twice? |
| #3ZaxFahrenheit200Mar 26, 2015 12:40:27 | I see what you're saying there. If we keep the +1/+1/+2, but limit the versatile feature to a combination of three skills and/or tools, does that trim it down enough? I realize that it's now basically the equivalent of the Skilled feat (which could also be taken at an appropriate level), but it also seems the "most" human to keep.
As for river elf, I think the following line would help clarify: additionally, when determining your bonus to the Athletics skill for swimming, you may add your proficiency bonus to it even if you're otherwise not proficient in it. If you have proficiency/expertise, you may add your proficiency bonus one more time in such a situation.
While that seems really powerful, I also feel as if the whole "cross the water" shindig may be too situational and thus for the most part a wasted feature. |
| #4CatodonMar 26, 2015 14:17:35 | You could try looking at my analysis/race creation system. There is a drop box link to the files buried in this thread (sorry posting on the run) http://community.wizards.com/forum/dungeon-master-help/threads/4153621?page=2#new |
| #5ZaxFahrenheit200Mar 26, 2015 17:55:36 |
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| #6ZaxFahrenheit200Mar 27, 2015 13:16:33 | @Catodon,
Alternately, what if the following human build was implemented?
Human Versatility. You have 12 humanity points which must be spent during character creation, and can be done as you see fit, with the point breakdown as follows: +1 to an ability score costs 2 humanity points. +2 to an ability score costs 4 humanity points (note you may not have more than +2 to a given ability score). Apprenticeship in a skill (half proficiency) costs 1 humanity point. Proficiency in a skill costs 2 humanity points. Expertise in a skill (double proficiency) costs 4 humanity points.
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| (Reply to #5)Catodon |
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| (Reply to #6)Catodon | I've added commentry and pices in bold
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| #9CatodonMar 27, 2015 17:16:10 |
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| #10ZaxFahrenheit200Mar 27, 2015 19:01:36 | Thanks for the analysis! Glad to know my human's good to go :P
From an rp/game world perspective, I've always wanted to create river elves, thinking that they would be the first elven sub race that really ventured out and was accepted by humanity (eventually leading to a kingdom ruled by a half elf monarch, and a uniquely coexistent society). I'm hesitant to lose longbows altogether, as they would be very useful for ship-to-ship volleys prior to boarding. Anyhow, if we keep everything else as is, I think that offering the below for weapons training should see the 12 hit on (or really close to) the mark.
Clash of Cultures: Generations of crossing waterways and the various peoples that live along them has led to a mix of ancestral elven and more local influences in river elf weapon training. Choose either rapier or scimitar proficiency for melee, and longbow or crossbow for ranged.
(Edit: typo) |