Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Onelostroad Mar 19, 2015 15:23:41	Here's the crux of my question - If a character is poisoned and the poisoned condition is removed, can a character be free of the poisoned condition but still affected by the poison?    A LOOK AT THE RULES:   - You can be affected by poison without gaining the poisoned condition. Basic poison or the breath weapon of a green dragon, for example, do poison damage without causing the victim to suffer the poisoned condition.   - In looking at spells and class features, there are several spells that address poison. Lesser restoration says it end the poisoned condition. Protection from poison, Resurrection, and the Paladin's Lay on Hands say that they "neutralize" a poison.     - The poisoned condition's only effect is to give disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks.   - Not all poisons listed the DMG, MM, or the one in the PHB give the poisoned condition. When the poisoned condition is listed as an effect, it is listed separately from any other effects of the poison.   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   My inclination is to say that the poisoned condition can be removed from the lesser restoration spell (as an example of one method to remove it) while the creature remains affected by the poison. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?       Also, while I'm on the topic of poison, any thoughts on a character's chance of noticing poison in their food or drink? Certainly it would be perception... active if they're suspicious and specificaly examining their food, passive if they're just chowing down without a second thought. But what would the DC for each be? Perhaps contested against a Sleight of Hand check by the poisoner? Or would each poison have a "native" DC to notice it in food or drink, perhaps modified by the type of food or drink it's in. Certainly it would be easier to taste poison in pure water than a stiff drink. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.
#2 iserith Mar 19, 2015 15:39:51	You don't get the poisoned condition just by taking poison damage. A strict reading of the rules as written would indicate that lesser restoration would have no effect on something like burnt othur which doesn't apply the poison condition. One would probably want protection from poison or the paladin's lay on hands instead. I would think it reasonable for the DM to just rule lesser restoration gets rid of the poison in its entirety, however.   As to discovering the poison in food or drink, my position is that the players would have to describe an action that amounts to them being cautious about their food and drink and suspicious of poison. Depending on their approach, I may then just say they discover the poison (no roll) or that they may or may not discover the poison and thus call for a roll. If they aren't making any noise about checking their grub, then they automatically fail to detect it. They may also have no chance to detect the poison if it has been established to be odorless and tasteless. In any case, I would telegraph the potential threat of poisoning at some point prior to the scene or in the framing of the scene. If I were to call for a roll, the DC would be based on the context of the situation and the stated goal and approach of the character by the player.
#3 Razintarr Mar 19, 2015 15:46:50	The poisons described in the DMG (page 257-258) all seem to connect the other effects of the poisoned to the poisoned condition.   Carrion Crawler Mucus for example states the victim becomes poisoned and that the poisoned creature is paralyzed. Oil of Taggit states the poisoned creature is unconscious. Pale Tincture inflicts damage on the poisoned creature.  Remove the poisoned condition with Lesser Restoration, and the rest of the effect stop because they depend on the creature having the poisoned condition.   Burnt Othur Fumes has an effect not connected to the poisoned condition though. If doesn't even give the poisoned condition. The creature subjected to the poison (note: not "the poisoned creature) takes damage in the next few rounds if it fails saves. In this case, Lesser Restoration wouldn't be able to stop this poison.   Protection from Poison states it neutralizes the poison, not just removing the poison condition, so this spell is your safe bet against all poisons.
(Reply to #3) Onelostroad	Razintarr wrote: