Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tylar Sep 19, 2014 20:47:00	So i played in our local Expeditions tonight, and we ran thru the part in DDEX 1-1 where you find the blue dragon tooth in the tavern. My question isnt so much about the module setup, but about the Dms response to the players actions. Heres the major points.   NPC sits down at the players table unexpectedly, and not introduced. Described as wearing a cloak, and looks semi-shady. The NPC then tells the players that a powerful magic item has made its way into the town, and is very likely in the tavern right now. The NPC mentions if we find it, he may reward us. Then he walks out of the tavern.   I then ask the DM out of character if we even had a chance to talk with this guy, negotiate any deal for this item, or about the terms of any deal that might have been made. The Dm then replied with " There was no netion, and he did not make any deal nor any specific mention of any payment."   Shortly after the npc left, the players thought maybe findig the item would be a good idea, and if it could be aquired perhaps we could turn it into a profit or make use of it for our various factions. We then proceeded to play out the adventure, using our skills and a bit of magic to locate the item in question, and one of the group took a bit of damage getting the item in hand and consequently saving the townsfolk. After a short rest to recover a bit and make sure the wounded townsfolk were recovering, the origional NPC who told us the item was here shows up and demands we give him/her ( im not sure, as this was not clear ) the item we just found. My character, being a bit roguish and follow the zhent's decided maybe to hold onto it and see if a greater reward could be hand, since we had no existing deal with this random guy to begin with. another of the party also didn't want to turn it over to this random NPCs demands. At this point, hand the players had decided not to hand it over, with the other half on the fence, not really leaning one way or the other.   The DM then had the NPC say " hand me the item, or ill throw you in jail. This kinda came out of nowhere, and wasnt explained in the slightest. My character then asked the NPC who he was in relation to this town or the local guard, and what would prompt this response. The DM then asked me directly " do you hand the tooth to him, or not." i replied, "no, i dont. If he wants to negotiate or discuss it then we might." The Dm then turned to both the players who didnt want to give the item away and said guards rush in and throw us both in jail. This event was handwaved, and we had no chance to anything at this point. The NPC took the item, and left in jail till the next day. The two players who had no real opinion on what to do got the listed gold, split between them, and the two players who got 24hr jail got nothing. Im honestly not even sure if we were awarded any xp or not.   It was at this point that i literally walked out on the table. I thought this over use of DM fiat and railroad was completely uncalled for. I clearly acted within the roleplaying limits of my character, comlete with a plan to turn the item in to my faction. The second player also had similar plans. My reasoning was as follows: we had no deal to turn this item in, he was not idetified as any sort of town representative, we had no control over beign sentenced, captured, and then imprisoned and we didnt even do anything illegal. Had the other players been strongly opinionated to turn it in for some reason, i could have been persuaded to do so, but they werent and didnt seem to mind that we didnt want to give it up.   Im just wondering what other DMs did to handle similar circumstances, and if the DM was just in this case, or if it was clearly overboard. Any advice would be appreciated.     Tylar
#2 iserith Sep 19, 2014 21:33:28	There are two sides to every story, but from your telling of the tale, it sounds like a pretty bad DM. I imagine organized play adventures don't leave a lot of room for open-ended decisions; however, this sounds pretty ridiculous even with whatever reasonable constraints one might expect in such a game setting.
#3 Ansbach Sep 19, 2014 22:18:26	Yeah, that was silly.  I don't have a problem with the first part - it's reasonable for a NPC to speak to you very briefly and then walk off without another word.  But the second part sounds ridiculous the way you describe it.  Those types of adventures are always going to be a railroad, but there are better ways to handle it.   My advice is to not play with him again.
#4 Direach Sep 19, 2014 22:13:09	Sounds to me like a DM who was only prepared for the story to go in one direction: you turn over the tooth to Mr. Plotmover. Unfortunate that you got railroaded like that; that could easily have led to an entertaining chase scene, or you guys trying to fast-talk your way past the guards, bluff them, threaten them, etc. Anything would have been better than "you go to jail".   A more experienced DM would have either gone with the flow and let the players determine how things played out, OR laid things out ahead of time so that turning over the item was clearly the best option for you guys (if that was the only way he wanted things to go). One thing I know for sure is, no player is happy when their character ends up imprisoned, especially when there's nothing they can do about it.
#5 Llenlleawg Sep 20, 2014 1:52:22	I don't know the whole story, but I expect that the adventure stated that the rewards (gold apparently, possibly also XP) require the handing over of the item. So, in one sense, the DM may have felt that his hands were tied, at least in terms of the rewards.   For my part, had I been the DM, I might have had the guards first enter in, have the NPC ask one last time whether you were willing to hand the item over, and (breaking out of NPC voice and speaking directly to the players), let the players know that they would not prevail in a fight with the town guard, and will likely find themselves imprisoned if they resist. It's heavy handed, yes, but I don't know how much freedom the DM has in these kind of events. Certainly, I'd deal with the scene differently in my own campaing for an adventure of my own creation with my own set of players, but that's a different thing.   I would recommend that you find a way not to be too upset. We are all human, DM and player alike, and I doubt that he meant you any ill will. He may even have thought he was letting you know the consequences of refusing to hand over the item in a way to allow you to see that other alternatives weren't going to work. I'd encourage you not to walk away from the table, but perhaps kindly, after the game, to ask the DM if the adventure simply didn't give allowances for what to do if the PCs keep the item, or if the adventure specifically notes that refusal leads to an (unavoidable) imprisonment. If the former, you might at least wonder how it might have been played out differently. If the latter, then at least you would know why the DM played the scene out as he did.
#6 Undrhil Sep 20, 2014 2:06:31	Actually, I think that mod allows you to keep the tooth and it treats it as a +1 dagger that one of the PCs can keep and write down on their log sheet.   My concern with this is that he was playing in-character and the DM punished him for that, which is *not* what Adventurer's League is supposed to be about.  I would definitely bring it up with the DM, that you felt he was unfair in his treatment of your characters in this mod and ask him if there was a specific reason that he wouldn't allow you to hang onto the dagger.  If he wasn't prepared, then he wasn't prepared .. I would then ask that he recend his previous judgement of your characters (the two that "went to jail") not getting treasure and xp.   If he was concerned that the dagger had to be turned over in order for xp and gold rewards, then he would have awarded those to the two who were imprisoned as well.  If he was just not comfortable with the idea of the PCs being given a +1 magic dagger .. well, I have no idea what to think of that.   The other option could be that he hadn't read the mod, had no idea how the ending was supposed to actually play out and assumed you were supposed to hand it over.  If this is the case, then all I can say is that he should have had time to read over the mod thoroughly and to ask the organizer any questions he may have had before the game began.  I dislike it when I get sat at a table with a DM who hasn't had time to read the mod and so either had to read it "real quick" at the table (which means he'll make mistakes usually) or just fudges his way through it (which can be fun if you get an experienced DM who knows how to do that and still keep within the mod framework.)