Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ocule Oct 08, 2014 11:20:56	So ive been contemplating my DM style. Many folks in my home games and adventurers league tell me that my games are substantially more difficult than the other DMs so ive been thinking is this really a good thing. Nornally I like to think so as the games are usually enjoyable but there are a few things I do differently like playing bad guys at their intelligence level to make the best use out of their abilities. Even wolves will gang up on a weak target. The other thing I do is wandering monsters that interupt resting in dangerous areas even for an hour and not the full 8. Dungeon denizens set new traps if they leave or pro actively seek them out. Is making rests more difficult to come by a fair decision? Even making them go a couple of encounters before being able to enjoy a rest safely. At least in my mind short rests are an hour long and not 5 minutes to prevent resting after ever single encounter. No one has actually complained about the way i do things, just commented on it. I know when i am a player i get bored if it feels like were never in any real danger, the fighter and warlock are always at full capacity and such. I thought such strategies were common, but based on feedback apparently they are not.   So utilizing DM strategies such as the ones below? Are they reasonable?  If a party rests inside of a dungeon or similar dangerous place, i either roll percentile or simply have them attacked by a wandering monster group. This makes them only rest when absolutely necessary and makes things like warlock abilities feel more like expendable resources. A long rest in a dangerous place is very likely to draw the attention of nearby baddies, being attacked mid rest while armor is off and the party is asleep. An alarm or sentry can wake the others but donning armor becomes impractical. Depending on certain factors the ambush is unlikely to cancel the rest but is usually a hard encounter due to the suprise or disadvantage.  Leaving the dangerous area for a long rest if the party has expended their load, dungeon denizens proactively renew traps, set up new ones or arrange ambushes. Depending on the forces remaining in the dungeon may opt to actively seek out the resting party or even decide the party is too large of a threat, grab the valuables they brought with them and leave. This discourages leaving and returning multiple times.  Nearby rooms will respond to sounds of battle and alarms. And no you cant ready action, for when the door opens if you are storming a room. Thats what initiative is for and the whole suprised thing.  Monsters will play to their appropriate intelligence, however they will nearly always make full use of any innate abilities they have like pack tactics or sneak attack. Why would they have the ability if they werent going to use it. Also unless there is a compelling reason for you to do so, you will probably never be able to explode a boss before it has a chance to act. Likely they will have, by the time you get to face them, some way around any save or die abilities/instantly exploding at a freshly rested party.
#2 iserith Oct 08, 2014 11:49:39	Ocule wrote:
#3 Ocule Oct 08, 2014 11:51:53	Yeah that last one is more, if you can set it up not just have your button waiting on a trigger like a glorified game of whack a mole. Coming up with a plan to make it happen is awesome, wandering in there and hitting every oh **** button you have is incredibly lame and i feel like a failure as a DM if thats how a big bad goes down.
#4 iserith Oct 08, 2014 12:01:57	Hitting every "oh **** button" they have is as valid a tactic as any other. It is reasonable to state up front that if they take longer than X days or take more than N rests to confront the villain, he, she or it will gain additional powers and defenses. But again, they need to know that going in so they can decide how they want to deal with that reality.
#5 ankiyavon Oct 08, 2014 12:14:04	Personally, I do these things with a blanket warning that time will pass at a rate of one second per second for the entire world, not just for the PCs. Every time the PCs take a short rest, the world gets an hour to work, and whatever happens happens.   Other than the fact that I use a blanket warning instead of talking about any specific circumstances, however (I would never inform players of a villain's plans or time scale unless they have discovered them through character actions), I agree with everything Iserith has posted in this thread.
#6 Rhenny Oct 08, 2014 13:32:09	I agree with the above.   The world goes on.  Adjudicate accordingly.    Rest only when absolutely necessary.
#7 Ashrym Oct 08, 2014 14:16:39	Yup, resting is risking. My idea of rest is when the players choose to rest and the DM provides a suitable break in the story that enables the rest.
#8 iserith Oct 08, 2014 14:29:07	I prefer an upfront statement regarding the risks of resting and the players taking it upon themselves to mitigate those risks if they can or want to. A false trail they set up might lead wandering monsters away from their resting position as might exploring to find a hidden corner of the dungeon untouched by any of its denizens for years. Or cutting rope bridges and pounding spikes into doors to make their position unassailable at least for a time. If they successfully accomplish these tasks, then they earn themselves an uninterrupted short or long rest.   Make 'em earn it - they'll probably feel more accomplished as players as a result.
#9 Ansbach Oct 08, 2014 21:28:00	Sleeping in armor has some interesting house-rule possibilities if you are looking for a degree of realism in that area: you could rule that you can only sleep in Light (or Medium?) armor, or you could rule that if you sleep in Heavy (or Medium?) armor you only get the effects of a short rest, or perhaps instead it increases your level of Exhaustion by one to represent poor sleep.
#10 TrueManiek Oct 09, 2014 0:42:57	iserith wrote:
(Reply to #9) EzechielDantan	Ansbach wrote:
#12 Primalblue Oct 09, 2014 2:36:22	I think these ideas are great. I do notice that spell casters and monks spend there loads fast and always want to rest. I don't think they need to know up front that these are rules just let them find out on their own. That will get more people to use tactics, spells and KI points reasonably.
#13 BrianCritchley Oct 09, 2014 3:01:23	I see nothing wrong with wondering monsters happening on the PCs while they're resting. Player characters have tools specificly to deal with that kind of thing after all. they can set watches, lay out some sort of trap as a warning system (a trip wire attached to a bell would be a good way to prevent orcs sneaking up on you in a dungeon for example) the excistance of spells such as Mordekin's Manshion clearly indicate that WOTC intends for these kinds of approuches to happen. and resting in an unsafe area leading to encounters is a trope dating back to the early days of d&d
#14 iserith Oct 09, 2014 6:08:46	TrueManiek wrote:
#15 icedcrow Oct 09, 2014 6:23:07	To the OP:  I do most of the things you say, and I have heard also that my adventures are harder.  I have played under several DMs and IMO the standard default today is a much easier and forgiving game than it was in the AD&D days (where a lot of those concepts you use were common).   Whenever I start a new game I usually forewarn that my games are more difficult than standard games because I do keep the challenge ratings a challenge.  Many of the DMs I have played under do not adjust encounters for more players than normal, for example, so an encounter geared towards four adventurers becomes very easy when there are six players at the table etc.   I also tailor to the group.  Most of the groups I play with are smart enough to one-shot most bosses if you don't prepare accordingly, for several reasons that I won't get into here.     As a player it is fairly easy to remove wandering monsters from showing up, making bosses easy, etc with minimal effort if one knows the rules well enough.  This is one of those things that I resolve by sitting down before a campaign begins and discussing house rules and goals etc.     I know that a couple years ago I had a party that would rest after every encounter to make sure they had all of their abilities and would use magic and had a standard plan that they'd put in place to remove the chance for wandering monsters.  If you messed with that plan they'd get irked that you were railroading them.  If you tried the old "you only have this many hours to accomplish this goal", they'd say "fine, we leave and let whatever bad will happen happen and go find a dungeon we can take our time in"
#16 BW0222 Oct 09, 2014 9:46:09	Ocule wrote:
#17 Ocule Oct 09, 2014 12:39:18	@icedcrow: Im glad im not the only one who seems to do this. Was starting to wonder if i was an outlier with my train of thought. A party who tells me that though would likely have to find a new DM because obviously they arent interested in playing, just in being told how unstoppable they are.    @BW022: Yeah something like that would be fine. With a group like that, i dont really use things like wandering monsters and environmental conditions. But then again ive also had a player argue with me to let him rest in a place that was clearly unsafe and unsuitable to even attempt to rest. It is possible to rest in larger dungeons, if the dungeon is large enough i would make sure to put a few spots that could be moderately acceptable as a place to sleep.    Meh, sometimes it is perfectly okay to snooze because the body needs sleep. Most of the time, your rests should only be short rests if its safe to stop. In a small dungeon, yeah not even a short rest. You can leave and come back but they may refortify, or you can come back in 8 hours and find you lost quite a bit of progress towards a goal or missed something. Truth is i hate running wandering monster encounters, but they serve their purpose in discouraging resting in a poor choice of location. Safe-ish places usually get a percentile, and there are safe places all together. Recently i saw another thread pointing out apparently its not against the rules to sleep in armor in this edition, i wouldnt be opposed to a con save to allow restful sleep in armor. Ive also thought about declaring some place simply too unsafe to get a restful sleep.
(Reply to #17) Timborama	Ocule wrote: