Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 intently May 18, 2015 12:57:02	Inspired by this question about displacer beats...   As a DM I struggle with adjudicating retreating NPCs. Any NPCs that aren't mindless should start to run when their group is obviously getting slaughtered. However, I don't find it very fun to end every combat with "the rest of the goblins start running away!" Then the PCs either give chase, or don't. If they don't give chase then obviously the goblins will come back with a bunch of friends, so the PCs feel obligated to do yet another chase after a few wounded goblins. It's boring to play it out unless the chase is of special significance.   Sometimes I just say "the rest of the goblins start to run, but you cut them down before they can escape". But that's kinda weak, because the goblins would have done *some* damage to the PCs if we had played out the combat. And I don't want to hand out damage to PCs arbitrarily for a truncated combat that I decided was too boring to play out.   So, anyone have a good solution?
#2 bawylie May 18, 2015 14:33:12	It goes back to why they're in the fight in the first place.    Why are the goblins and PCs fighting?  I mean, if violence is the answer, what was the question?   Lets say there's a cave in which a mama bear territorially defends its cubs. As the PCs pass through, the bear attacks them. The PCs just want to pass through, the bear just wants to defend its bearbies. She Attacks them (because she's proactive) - and the PCs fight. The question is: Can the PCs pass the she-bear's den?     There are multiple ways to answer that question. Obviously, if the PCs kill the bear (monsters!) then they can pass her den. They might also just run past her - she's defending her cubs, so she won't pursue. In any case, once the PCs pass the den or no longer present any threat to the Cubs, the encounter is over.    Lets look at your goblins. Maybe they're a raiding party out for loot. They will smash, grab, & go. The PCs don't want to be robbed. The central conflict is whether they can keep their stuff through a goblin raid. So they fight - and the fight is done once the goblins figure out they can't win or get anything worthwhile without heavy losses.    Instead of worrying about how smart something is, figure out the central conflict (what some of us call The Dramatic Question) at the heart of your encounter. The encounter is over when that conflict is resolved (question is answered).
#3 Orethalion May 18, 2015 16:06:34	You also have to look at their intelligence and the situation.  The goblins that got away won't always come back with more goblins, especially if the PCs aren't heading to or in the goblin warren.     Situation: 4 PCs happen upon 10 goblins wanding through the forest.  18 seconds later, the remaining 2 goblins hightail it out.   Gob and Zug:  Chief!  Chief!  These 4 guys are in the forest and they killed Bug, Zap, Fin, Glorch, Snot, Zigag, Ugly, and Butt.  Give us more goblins that we may slay them!   Chief: Did the 10 of you kill any of them?   Gob and Zug:  No.     *Chieftan finishes the job*   Chief:  Bury these two idiots and let the adventurers be.
(Reply to #3) TheLarch	I'll just go with whatever makes sense, taking into account the fact that one round is just 6 seconds. It does take some time for the NPC's to realize that they are losing, so I will not have them run away the moment they get out numbered. It takes at least 10-15 rounds before I begin to consider that. If the monsters/npcs get slaugtered in less than 10-15 rounds they never realized what hit them.
#5 Orethalion May 18, 2015 18:45:18	TheLarch wrote:
#6 iserith May 18, 2015 19:15:47	intently wrote:
#7 BadMeeple May 19, 2015 1:56:31	When it's clear that the PCs have the upper hand, such that the challenge (and fun) is draining out of a combat encounter, I will often adjudicate that the next hit kills an opponent - I wait for the damage roll but then I narrate how the PCs attack killed the enemy, even if they still had hit points remaining.   The way I see it, when the battle has swung in the PCs favour such that victory is almost certain, there's almost no point drawing out the fight for another few minutes while the PCs chip away at a few remaining hit points.   I've also had intelligent enemies in their lair/home flee to try and warn their allies. This effectively changes the dramatic question to "can the PCs stop the enemies raising the alarm?", which suddenly makes things interesting again.
#8 Rya.Reisender May 19, 2015 4:52:58	What I always wonder is if a campaign says "If X is the only one left, he will run away." is that some kind of event with a trigger condition? Like the moment the last other monster is defeated, there will simply be an event saying that X runs away. Or is it just what X wants to do, so he still has to wait for his turn to come up and then use Disengage/Dash and try to get away?   I find it often happens that if I don't just make him escape instantly the group manages to defeat all monsters before they can get away. In certain cases I think this makes the story a bit less interesting (no recurring enemy appearing), so I kind of have the motivation to prevent players from stopping the escape. I didn't do it so far, though.   To answer the question on how I do it: - When it's the enemy's turn and the enemy is next to a PC, it will disengage and then walk as far away as possible; if not next to a PC, it will use dash instead - I tell players how far away the enemy is from them (so they can determine if they can even reach it) and that it clearly intends to run away - I give players one turn to either decide to let the enemy go or attack it with whatever can reach it - If enemy is still alive, repeat at the top, until: a) The enemy disappeared from vision and I decide that the group won't be able to follow it, because it's too far away already. b) The group gave up persuing it. c) The group follows the enemy into a room with more enemies, so the one running away may reconsider and attack again as it sees itself at advantage again. - End combat
#9 intently May 19, 2015 6:44:02	bawylie wrote:
#10 Mad_Jack May 19, 2015 14:13:31	What I generally do, if an encounter in a pre-packaged module indicates that the last survivor (or survivors) flee is to have them break off (or at least start to) just before they get to that situation if possible - rather than wait until their turn or until the second-to-last guy dies, they break and run so that the party has to split their resources - it makes it slightly more interesting. Some individuals may break before others, while some may not decide to/be able to or be aware the other are bugging out. If the encounter indicates someone runs for reinforcements, that runner usually leaves while there's still somebody around to cover his retreat.    Under most circumstances, however, if the fight's basically over, I just basically stop rolling dice and begin sort of a "channeled" narration.   If the opponents are still fighting: Any weapon/spell hit kills the opponent or at least drops them unconscious/otherwise takes them out. Any bad guy caught in an area effect or save spell, same deal. Someobody may be required to walk over and coup de grace them after the fight, but they're no longer a threat. If a character is in melee with an opponent and doesn't hit them in a given round, the bad guy hits them for some minor damage - half the average damage of one attack (unless the creature didn't have a chance in hell of hitting them, then they miss). Usually by the second round of this the bad guys are either dead or about to be since the party's now ganging up on them two-or-three-to-one. Chances are good that even if they stage a fighting withdrawal the bad guys won't survive more than  two or three rounds.   If opponents are actively fleeing (rather than staging a fighting retreat): All bets are off. The bad guys are paying no attention to defending themselves (even if they're zig-zagging or otherwise being evasive). Anybody with a ranged weapon or fast enough to catch them kills one per attack, don't bother rolling. Area effect spells just take out anybody in their effect. There's still a vague chance somebody might escape, but if the party wants to make the effort to take down the fleeing survivors (and plays it smart) they generally do.      If the fight's basically over and there's no chance of or pupose for making it dramatic, try to make it entertaining. Most players will either enjoy or at least not mind taking a round or three to creatively describe how their badass character mows down their last remaining foes - and even the "serious roleplayers" can take the time to give exposition about the reasons why their characters are letting the opponents flee or taking them out for the good of the party, etc.
#11 BRJN May 19, 2015 14:41:21	I'm prepping a mini-campaign built around taking down a gang of bandits.  Setting is a tropical jungle version of the Wild West.   Some of the bandits you meet will fight in place - especially if you walked into their ambush. Some of the bandits you meet will fight until they figure out "who is the tougher", then flee if the answer is "the PCs".  (As noted above, this may take 1-2-3 rounds.) Some of the bandits you meet will send a runner back to HQ for reinforcements or otherwise trigger a bigger plan, then fight / retreat until Something Important happens. Some of the bandits you meet will run after Round One.  They weren't expecting any trouble out here. Some of the bandits you meet will stand in place and fight until destroyed - especially if The Boss told them not to come back without the PCs' heads on a stick. Some of the bandits you meet are going to attack / counter-attack the PCs and fight to the finish - The Boss, his bodyguards, anybody with a death sentence hanging over their head anyways. Some of the bandits you meet are actually looking for an excuse to surrender because they think The Boss is going to lose in the end.   So, after I decide what each group's purpose for being there is, and evaluate how the overall campaign is going, I can figure out what each group is going to do.  I hope to provide enough variety that my players don't just create a Standard Battle Plan that always produces the same result.
(Reply to #5) TheLarch	Orethalion wrote:
#13 Orethalion May 19, 2015 17:23:34	TheLarch wrote:
#14 AndrewJO May 21, 2015 5:21:50	As a player, I find fleeing NPCs to be annoying and boring. I play a ranger with sharpshooter, when an enemy starts to flee, I have to just keep making attack rolls until all of the NPCs are dead, no challenge, no skill required. The enemies can't flee fast enough to escape my range (600 ft without disadvantage), and if they dodge instead of dashing, my allies catch up and slaughter them, again, no challenge or skill required. Leave fleeing for important characters or for situations where escaping enemies means some sort of penalty to the party (rear guard, scouts, etc).
(Reply to #14) TheLarch	AndrewJO wrote:
#16 durntaur May 21, 2015 10:44:31	TheLarch wrote:
#17 Kayal May 21, 2015 11:11:38	intently wrote:
#18 TheLarch May 22, 2015 2:17:03	durntaur wrote:
#19 durntaur May 22, 2015 9:00:30	TheLarch wrote:
#20 Kayal May 22, 2015 9:10:49	durntaur wrote:
#21 BRJN May 22, 2015 14:31:16	Champions of Valor offers a variant class feature "Know Greatest Enemy", which I persuaded my DM to allow on my Paladin after we leveled out of the AL portion of HotDQ.  In effect, I know who our toughest opponent is, plus I know if the foes are super-easy or super-hard or about-equal.  Of course Boss Fights all trigger as 'super-hard'.   There is also a Prestige Class Ghostwalker which offers you a bonus in combat if your foe beat you up the last time you met !   Overall, I advise talking with the group about handling fleeing foes and surrenders (both ways).  It may be that, in most cases, "We let them run away" is enough, and only when somebody says "I want to pursue" does the combat need to continue.  YMMV.