Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 SpinG22 Mar 22, 2015 10:32:45	hey everyone, I'm running HotDQ and am curious if anyone thinks giving half proficiency on weak saves is too strong?
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Mar 22, 2015 11:22:19	It isn't a matter of "too strong", it's a matter of "the game isn't designed with that in mind".   If you're okay with low-level characters not caring about save proficiency (since everyone gets +1 to all saves, with an extra +1 to two others), and everyone generally passing more saves than normal, then go for it.
#3 Jenks Mar 22, 2015 13:09:03	Yeah that's up to you man. Basically your PCs are going to be a bit more resilient than the norm, but if that's what you want for your game I say go for it.
#4 BRJN Mar 22, 2015 16:02:43	I dunno about doing that.  Will it apply to monsters too?  My party Wizard already feels like a lightweight because so many foes Save against his spells and take only half damage.
#5 SpinG22 Mar 22, 2015 18:17:43	Was going to be for the pcs only.  Just seems like you either have a 65ish% chance to succeed or 5-10% later on.  Since dcs keep going up with level it seems adventurers get worse with their weak saves.  The math seems to break a little to me around lvl 11.
(Reply to #5) transcendantviewer	SpinG22 wrote:
#7 Archon007 Mar 23, 2015 9:55:50	SpinG22 wrote:
#8 SpinG22 Mar 23, 2015 13:02:22	My players didn't min/max and talk to me about this.  It just looked to me that there are some saves they will be making later on that they only succeed on a 20.  To me it seemed odd that the dc goes up but the players don't get even a little better at their off saves.  I suppose they all need to grab resilience later on.
#9 Slyck314 Mar 24, 2015 8:27:53	There are a breadth of other class features outside proficiency in saves that either help characters make saves or mitigate the cost of failure. By simply raising the passive bar for everything you undermine the variety and dynamic nature of the game.
#10 UngeheuerLich Mar 24, 2015 5:43:49	Saving throws are more or less a duration mechanic. For damage spells, not making your saving throw is the assumption when CR of creatures is calculated.
#11 Archon007 Mar 24, 2015 10:56:52	SpinG22 wrote:
#12 WanderingBard Mar 24, 2015 11:14:38	I have no idea how you need a 20 to save. I'm assuming the save DC is 19 or higher then b/c even with a -2 penalty and no proficiency the only time you have to roll a 20 to succeed is if the save DC is 19 or higher. In that case thats an insane DC to be saving against, and I haven't looked carefully at the monster manual, but from what I have seen most save DCs are no where near that number. Anything in the 12-16 range is savable with a good roll, and if you have a penalty against it then thats your fault for min maxing. If you dump some stats then you get punished for it if you are targeted by skills that require certain saves. Just like a mage isint going to be able to escape a grapple by an orc, and warrior shouldnt be able to shrug off psychic assault just because he dosen't have a good int save. As a DM you should avoid impossibly high saves. Remember the dm needs to make the session fun for the players, not make it hard as possible or "realistic". Tone the save DCs down a bit if you want, but don't go giving free cop outs to your players just because they arent optimal for a certain save.
#13 Tempest_Stormwind Mar 24, 2015 12:29:28	Archon007 wrote:
#14 Archon007 Mar 24, 2015 13:55:56	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#15 Tempest_Stormwind Mar 24, 2015 15:27:03	Archon007 wrote: